Why are 2nd World War,German subjects the most popular? (1 Viewer)

[steveo]

Well I was wondering why are 2nd world war German items are so popular ,yes I know before you all tell me it sells ,but why
Take a look at King and Countrys most popular models and you can bet they are 2nd world war German ,same with most new plastic kits ,again German subjects seem the favourite and then then my other Hobbies leading light Dragon ,nearly every other release is a German subject .I mean its been done to death yet ,when they release a British Tanker it sells out straight away? What I’m trying to get is ,are the major manufacturers playing safe ,because they know it sells so that’s all they give us? It seems to me you can every German colour/size /variation /time frame pre war /end of winter /spring /autumn scheme going ,this doesn’t seem to apply to the Allied side of things why?

Come on how many tigers /panthers do people want, wow its in white yippee do!Give us some Hobart funnies ,or even Sherman variations ,and then I’m even getting sick of Shermans.

I hope in 2007 somebody takes the hint and gives collectors what they want ,a bit of imagination and more non German subjects I mean Italians wouldnt go a miss.It just seems strange that that the 2nd world war was fought to rid us of the third reich,yet its more popular than ever,sometimes bordering on heroe worship ,Wittman for example very strange

Rant over
Steve

 

[Rob]

Couldn't agree more Steve.Can't stand the hero worship of people like Wittman,makes my skin crawl.I can understand appreciation of military skill of Rommel etc but as people they fought for scum who had to be eradicated.

As far as German vehicles selling well i can understand this,their vehicles were of a such a good standard compared to ours that they became legendary.Whilst i would never have LAH stuff in my house i do like the tanks/vehicles, again because i can appreciate good military hardware.There is also one other point i often think of,however good their tanks were..WE STILL BEAT THEM!.And removed the shadow of Nazism from the world.

I would also love to see people like K&C,NMA,Honor bound etc make more allied tanks in 2007.There are so many still to be made from the variants of the Sherman and Churchill alone.Lets get some Grants,crusaders,Shermans,Matildas and celebrate our armoured history too.

Rob

 

[Fubar]

I Don't care for the Hero worship either . But, I can only say from my attitudes from a modeler and collector that the Germans are simply more interesting.From Uniforms{ bewildering variety of Camo for Army and the dreaded SS} , Weapons, Mp40, STG44, MG42 etc.{ I've had the oppurtunity to handle and fire all of these as well as most of the standard British and American weapons}
as well as the sheer volume of different armored vehicles of all manner, armored cars, halftracks, SPAA,SPAT, SPART, Light tanks, Medium and heavy tanks and all the variants.There is simply so much for a modeler to test his skills at as well as applying the different camo schemes.Also perhaps theres some morbid fascination with the BAD GUYS.
The above is simply the way I see it from numerous conversations over the years with my gaming friends, fellow miniature enthusiasts and even my 12 year old son.He and his friends go straight for the Germans when it's time to set up a display.
I agree , we need more Allied armor and troops.Soviets too please.
1/32 preferably !

FubaRRrrRrrR

 

[steveo]

Well i like to see a British Comet and a Russian Iosif Stalin tank il2 or 3 both used at the end of the war.Fairplay to you about the variety of german uniforms and armour,but dont you all get a bit fed up of them sometimes?
Dont get me wrong,im as bad as the rest of you for German armour,of the 12 tanks i have 10 are German ,often though it about avaliablity ,at the Model (hobby)shop , i take what i can get .I asked owner to try and stock a larger range of Toy soldiers /forces of valor but hes says theys no call for it and just carries a limited range

Heres a link some may find intersting?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_military_vehicles_by_country#Tanks

steve

 

[OzDigger]

There are a number of reasons for the popularity of German subjects in WWII. However, if I had to name the major reason for their popularity, it would be German technology and design. Germany was the leading industrial nation throughout most of WWII, and still is a major player. The Germans have long been known for making advanced products that are built to last. The only downside with German thinking, at least during WWII, was that they tended to over engineer a device to solve a promblem rather than find a simpler solution.

This is seen time and time again when you examine their technology used in WWII. In fact, when you compare all the weapons Germany made during WWII it is rare that you will find that another country made a better version. Another significant factor is that Hitler, as crazy as he was, insisted on his men having the best weapon available. And if there wasn't an effective weapon available, he was in the unique position of ordering that one be built. Which is why the list of German weapons is so extensive.

 

[Gideon]

Germany vs America. Evil vs Good.

I hate to say it, but it's kind of like a guy soap opera. There is a lot of drama and mystique surrounding the Germans - their process driven perfection and ultimate insanity againt the heart and never-say-die mentallity of the American.

Additionally, the German uniforms were specifically designed to be impressive looking - to make an impression. Their helmets and dress daggers, for example, were based on design elements of some 16th century armor.

Everything the Germans did and produced had purpose beyond functionality. The equipment and uniforms were impressive and fierce looking.

Then you have the American ingenuity and practical mindedness. Our uniforms and equipement were designed for functionality and use - no real style to speak of against the German stuff.

Just my two cents here but I think this is just kind of how it goes. If there is anything the Nazis did have, it was a sense of style.

Everything else just seems to fall by the wayside and kind of becomes a footnote. It's really strange.

 

[Chuck Harris]

There are a number of reasons for the popularity of German subjects in WWII. However, if I had to name the major reason for their popularity, it would be German technology and design. Germany was the leading industrial nation throughout most of WWII, and still is a major player. The Germans have long been known for making advanced products that are built to last. The only downside with German thinking, at least during WWII, was that they tended to over engineer a device to solve a promblem rather than find a simpler solution.

This is seen time and time again when you examine their technology used in WWII. In fact, when you compare all the weapons Germany made during WWII it is rare that you will find that another country made a better version. Another significant factor is that Hitler, as crazy as he was, insisted on his men having the best weapon available. And if there wasn't an effective weapon available, he was in the unique position of ordering that one be built. Which is why the list of German weapons is so extensive.

OZ

You are right on for number of reasons for the popularity of German subjects in WWII. You over looked the main one. They should have won. I don't mean I wanted the Germans win & rule the World.
So I think people who love to study history are looking to see if Hitler was seeing something we are not.

 

[OzDigger]

Hi Chuck, when I read the history of any of the many battles in WWII it's always a bit scarry how close they were. There are plenty of armchair generals around now to say what the various commanders did wrong but they all have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.

When you look at the battles in their own time it's easier to see why who did what and why. For example, most people, including myself, say that Hitler should never have invaded Russia. But when you look at Russia's poor performance against Finland together with their poor equipment at the time it's understandable that Hitler thought Germany could defeat Russia. Especially when you consider they attacked Russia six months before Pearl Harbour.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Oz,

The people who were most convinced that Germany should not invade Russia until Britain had been defeated were the members of the German General Staff. They, who had secretly practiced Armor tactics in Russia, were aware of the difficulties presented by the vastness and terrain of the Soviet Union, and of the fact that Russia had heavier tanks that would prove superior to the Panzer IV, Germany's heaviest tank at the time. Guderian fell out of favor with Hitler for pointing out these problems. That's not hindsight, that's history. So Hitler was warned, ignored the warning, and it cost him his Reich. Couldn't have happened to a bigger smuck.

 

[Combat]

Oz,

The people who were most convinced that Germany should not invade Russia until Britain had been defeated were the members of the German General Staff.

The German General Staff held the same opinion of the Czechs, French etc.

 

[Rob]

Louis,really liked that smuck phrase!.What a wonderful thing it was that the free countries of the world united to give his wonder nation such an arse kicking.God bless every man woman and child around the world who fought and died in the cause of ridding the world of these scum.It just happens they made good tanks!

Rob

 

[Louis Badolato]

Rob,

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the efforts of that "greatest generation" from every Allied nation. We owe them the world we live in, the very lives we live. I think about their hardships and suffering, and how good my life is, and can say nothing more appropriate than "thank you". We must, never, ever forget them. For me, that's what this hobby is all about.

 

[Warrior]

Since I converse with a large amount both toy soldier collectors and wargamers, I find the reason the German stuff sells better is people view it as "sexy" if that makes sense, from the camoflage on the tanks to the massive amount of camo in the uniforms as Fubar has pointed out.

The Tiger, Tiger II, Mark IV and the Panther look good and are well designed, plain and simple. The American, British and Russian tanks are rather drab looking and aside from the T34, were inferior to the main German tanks. The American, British and Russian uniforms are drab looking as well; the British Airborne uniform with the denison smock and the red beret is superb looking.

When I talk with wargamers at the conventions, they all want to be the Germans. I don't see it as a case of "Hero worship"; people I talk to RESPECT Wittman for his exploits on the field of battle, but he is far from a hero in their eyes. To call him a hero is a rather strong word................

 

[Combat]

Just to beat it to death, here is a quote from Barbarossa by Alan Clark (one of the more readable and definitive studies of the invasion of Russia):

"Finally, if it is not premature to do so, I have tried to suggest a reassessmant of Hitler's military ability. His capacity for mastering detail, his sense of history, his retentive memory, his strategic vision - all these had flaws, but considered in the cold light of objective military history, they were brillant nonetheless. The Eastern campaign, above all, was his affair, and his violent and magnetic personality dominated its course, even in defeat. Since the war Hitler has been a convenient repository for all the mistakes and miscalculations of German military policy. But a study of events in the East will show that occasions when Hitler was right and the General Staff wrong are far more numerous than the apologists of the German Army allow."

 

[Louis Badolato]

I have not read Alan Clark's book, but he seems unique in praising Hitler's meddling into the handling of the German Army by the great general staff, an institution which, since the time of Blucher, had been handling German military affairs with genious. With all due respect to Mr. Clark (who, as I said, I have never read) the vast majority of commentators on the subject are thankful for Hitler's meddling, without which it is extremely doubtful Germany would have lost the war. This has already been discussed in detail on another thread, and I don't want to rehash it here, but Hitler's appointments of incompetent cronies like Goering to key positions, his interference with the development of jet fighters, and his decisions to call of the Panzers at Dunkirk, to invade Russia, and his meddling within the Russian campaign were all key elements in costing Germany the war.

Perhaps the greatest military strategist of the Second World War, Heinz Guderian, the father of the Panzer Divisions, summed up Hitler's decision to attack Russia as follows (Panzer Leader, Page 142):

"Shortly after Molotov's visit my new Chief of Staff, Lieutenant-Colonel Freiherr von Liebenstein, and my first general staff officer, Major Bayerlein, were summoned to a conference by the Chief of the Army General Staff; there they heard for the first time about the proposed campaign against Soviet Russia, Operation Barbarossa. They returned from the conference and reported to me: when they spread out a map of Russia before me I could scarcely believe my eyes. Was something I had held to be utterly impossible now to become a fact? Hitler had criticized the leaders of German policy of 1914 in the strongest possible words for the failure to avoid a war on two fronts; was he now, on his own initiative and before the war with England had been decided, to open this second-front war against the Russians? All his soldiers had warned him repeatedly and urgently against this very error, and he himself had agreed with them."

General Guderian continued to discuss the preparations for Operation Barbarossa as follows:

"The winter and spring of 1941 passed as in a nightmare. Renewed study of the campaigns of Charles XII of Sweden and of Napoleon I clearly revealed all the difficulties of the theatre to which we threatened to be committed; it also became increasingly plain to see how inadequate were our preparations for so enormous an undertaking."

Again, with all due respect to Mr. Clark, I trust the insights and opinions of General Guderian, an incredibly successful strategist and field commander involved in preparing and executing the operation, more than the conclusion of a later commentator who was not so involved.

 

[boot51]

To use the word "brillant" in any way connected to Hitler is laughable. Any success the German Army had achieved in battle was despite his idiotic meddling, not because of any nonexistant military skill he had. He was so drugged up from early 1942 on he could hardly function. His general staff and the men of the German Army are ones that fought the real brillant defensive action for the last three years of the war.

Fred

 

[OzDigger]

I think Warrior/George nailed it with the sexy suggestion.

Now regarding the Russian invasion, you guys should note that I (another armchair General) did say that Hitler shouldn't have invaded Russia

However there is much in what Combat said. And in addition the Russian campaign was going rather well until the Germans tried to take Stalingrad in the Summer of 1942. Despite what some say about Hitler he often paid a great deal of notice to what his Generals told him. And in fact it was General Jodl that convinced Hitler that the various objectives in Russia could be achieved with greater intakes of Italian, Hungarian and Rumanian troops to army strengths.

And it was these 'foreign' troops that were holding the centre that the Russians selected for attack as they knew they weren't as tough and as well trained as the German troops. Other Generals such as Halder were against the use of large numbers of these foreign troops but Hitler paid more notice to Jodl on this matter, and most people believe Jodl was one of Germany's better Generals in WWII. Hitler's main military downfall was his inability to allow his troops to pull back to better positions. And if this had been done, there would have been some different outcomes, but the end result would have been the same.

 

[Warrior]

Oz is 1000% correct regarding the input of Jodl. It was the foreign troops in the German army that proved to be their undoing in Russia. As he correctly stated, they were the weak points aong the German front lines.........

 

[Combat]

BTW: Clark was Secretary of State in Margaret Thatcher's cabinet. So I assume he has no great desire to promote Hitler's merits. Following the war a number of German generals, including Guderian wrote books blaming Hitler for the defeat. Their motives were obvious and their accounts have been largely discredited by most historians. Guderian served as Chief of Staff for some period during 1944-45. So he was heavily involved in the decison making process. Hitler did in fact make numerous mistakes, but the discussion is not as simplistic as it once appeared. It is also a good topic to stir up a little conversation with Louis. Anyway I do recommend the book to anyone interested in the Eastern Front.

 

[Warrior]

Combat,
Are you going to Fall In the weekend of November 10th through the 12th; I'll be there set up in the dealers area, but I really just wanted to go to Gettysburg to see the battlefield once again. I can't get enough of the whole experience of just being there. If you come by, look me up. One of my customer is running a huge Pacific game with K & C figures and painted terrain done up by yours truly..........