Sherman info needed (1 Viewer)

[Wraith]

Well, if that title doen't get Gary B's attention, I don't know what will!

I'm hoping someone may be able to shed a little light on some purchases I made at the London Show. I bought a couple of unfinished polystone (I think) Shermans, becuase they looked pretty clean, the right sort of scale and because they were cheap!

The info I'm after (if anyone has it) comes in to parts.

Firstly, does anyone recognise who might have produced this vehicle?
I don't know if it's an unfinished example(s) of one of the mainstream manufacturers Shermans or whether its a cottage industry piece. Sixe wise, it's at the smaller end of the 1/30 scale market (only fractionally smaller than the K&C DD65 Sherman), but bigger than the 21st Century Shermans I've got available to compare against.

there are no markings or other giveaway clues. The main tank is in Polystone, rather than resin with metal parts. One of the details that might make it more recognisable, is the staggered track detail, which I can't recall seeing on other manufacturers tanks (as per photos)

The second bit of info I'm seeking, for any budding Sherman-oholic, is what type of Sherman is this based on and who would have used it. I'm afraid I struggle with some of the minor differences in model variations with the Sherman, but hopefully the detail is clear enough so that the experts could perhaps identify it.

Any info at all would be gratefully received. Photos below.

Cheers
Simon

 

[Wraith]

And a few comparison shots:

Anyone any ideas?

 

[aujj65]

Simon.

Nice find! I can't shed any light on the maker, but I think the finished colour should be green?

Jeff

 

[Wraith]

Simon.

Nice find! I can't shed any light on the maker, but I think the finished colour should be green?

Jeff

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff,
How little you know me

 

[maddadicus]

Nice find..Could they be Verlinden? Looks like their kind of kit. I know that they do a lot of 1/35 and your tanks look 1/32 at least..Might be some retired line..Michael

 

[binder001]

INteresting! Off hand, my first impression is Britains. I'll have to go look at my Wm Britains M4A1. My opinions are based on;
Size - a Wm Britains M4A1 is slightly larger than one from Forces of Valor, but slightly smaller than a K&C version.

Sand shield - The tank in the photo has the dust shields on the tracks, and the suspension bogies are cast in relief on the hull side. The sand shield is cut away to show the drive sporcket, and the Britains' Shermans had that feature.

Towing hooks - the towing shackles are shown on the upper front of the transmission cover, a feature that irritated me about the Wm Britains version.

One of the tanks is a "Hybrid" hull - I was not aware that Wm Britains made that hull variant. Maybe it was a "Firefly" model?

The raw castings look pretty good. A coat of Tamiya US olive-drab or a touch of British SCC15 olive drab, possibly add a camo color, touch up the detals, add markings (some 1/35th decals are large enough to look OK on these, so do some of Archer's excellent dry transfers) and you'll have some decent display pieces.

Hope you enjoy.

Gary B.

 

[aujj65]

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff,
How little you know me

I forgot about these!

Jeff

 

[binder001]

The second bit of info I'm seeking, for any budding Sherman-oholic, is what type of Sherman is this based on and who would have used it. I'm afraid I struggle with some of the minor differences in model variations with the Sherman, but hopefully the detail is clear enough so that the experts could perhaps identify it.

Simon,

The tank with the all-rounded hull form is an M4A1. The M4A1 was actually the first type in production. Armed with an M3 75mm gun and powered by an air-cooled radial engine. The M4A1 saw service in many theaters, and was used by the US, the British and a few by the Free French. The model shown has the added applique armor (the extra armor panels) which dates it from about 1944, again used by the British in Northwest Europe and the US Army from Normandy on.

The tank with the rounded upper hull front and the "sharp edged" or squared off rear hull represents an M4 medium tank produced by Chrysler at the Detroit Tank Arsenal in 1943. They were looking for better frontal protection and larger driver hatches. Foundry capacity had limited the all-cast upper hulls of the M4A1, so Chrysler went with a cast frontal hull and welded rear. (In the end the Fisher Body solution of a welded hull with steeper hull front and larger hatches was adopted for future production). These "composite" cast-welded hulls were known as "Sherman I Hybrid" in the British Army. The "hybrid hull" M4 was common in the Pacific (the 713th Tank Bn used a bunch for flame tank conversions), was used in limited numbers by the US Army in France and in large numbers by British and Canadian forces in Europe. The British converted quite a few to the 17-pounder gun armament under the "Firefly" program and others served with 75mm guns.

So you have several options for painting and finishing your models. Holler if you need more info.

Gary B.

 

[Wraith]

Nice find..Could they be Verlinden? Looks like their kind of kit. I know that they do a lot of 1/35 and your tanks look 1/32 at least..Might be some retired line..Michael

Hi Michael,

I did wonder if it might be one of the 'model maker' manufacturers, but a few things goining against that are, as you say, the model community favouring 1/35, whereas this is a definate 1/32 or larger, and also the fact that it's polystone rather than resin. Was pleased to catch sight of these though.

Cheers
Simon

 

[Wraith]

INteresting! Off hand, my first impression is Britains. I'll have to go look at my Wm Britains M4A1. My opinions are based on;
Size - a Wm Britains M4A1 is slightly larger than one from Forces of Valor, but slightly smaller than a K&C version.

Sand shield - The tank in the photo has the dust shields on the tracks, and the suspension bogies are cast in relief on the hull side. The sand shield is cut away to show the drive sporcket, and the Britains' Shermans had that feature.

Towing hooks - the towing shackles are shown on the upper front of the transmission cover, a feature that irritated me about the Wm Britains version.

One of the tanks is a "Hybrid" hull - I was not aware that Wm Britains made that hull variant. Maybe it was a "Firefly" model?

The raw castings look pretty good. A coat of Tamiya US olive-drab or a touch of British SCC15 olive drab, possibly add a camo color, touch up the detals, add markings (some 1/35th decals are large enough to look OK on these, so do some of Archer's excellent dry transfers) and you'll have some decent display pieces.

Hope you enjoy.

Gary B.

Gary,

I think you've nailed it. Looking at pictures of the various Britains Sherman releases, I think what I've got her is a mixture of the sets.
The hull and turret are matched for the Firefly (with turret bins etc included as per photo below), but then there's the US tanker casting, along with a 75 or 76mm(?) gun, rather than the 17 pounder, and the hedgecutter from one of the US Sherman releases.

Well, I'll do a little mixing, matching, converting and messing around on these,
and with your expert advice, will go for a standard couple of Brit Shermans, so I'll lose the hedgecutters and turret bins to the spares box, along with the US commander, and maybe go for a hatch closed pair to provide support for the Fireflys.
I was thinking of the same thing re Archers Transfers - close enough in scale to get away with it.

Many thanks for the advice, and when I get them polished and painted, I'll chuck up some pics.

Cheers
Simon

(Some of the Britains Shermans

 

[johngambale]

Hello Simon! I Purchased 8-Sherman Tanks, on e-Bay made from (Heng Long) R/C Company(1/30) Scale! They are Discontinued, but the Price's has gone up Lately on E-bay! The're are Beautiful,(M4A2)! I have painted 2-for my 8th army N.Africa Sets! Also, painted and decaled, 4-for the Bulge! Also, Painted 2-for the British 30th Corps for Arnhem! The Tanks when I bought them for $12.99US,; Now they're selling for $25.00US! You could see the Photo's on e-Bay! Just write Sherman Tanks 1/30! CIAO!

 

[binder001]

If you need a home for the US tanker, I never have enough

Gary B

 

[jazzeum]

Any chance these might be Pipeline?

 

[binder001]

Any chance these might be Pipeline?

If you are speaking about the Britains Shermans, these are actually a bit old. I've had mine for a number of years. As far as any new US tankers? I can only wish. ONTC had a good one in one of their WW2 sets which is size compatable with Britains, but unless Ken O has any surprises for us I'll bet we can't expect any.

Gary B.

 

[maddadicus]

A great question would be ,if they are Britains, how did these unfinished models end up at a soldier show. Prototypes, maybe...Simon, maybe you should get those gumshoe instincts going and do some detective work..

 

[Wraith]

A great question would be ,if they are Britains, how did these unfinished models end up at a soldier show. Prototypes, maybe...Simon, maybe you should get those gumshoe instincts going and do some detective work..

Good question Michael. There are a couple of very minor bits that will need a small amount of filler prior to setting up and painting, so I don't know how ruthless the quality control was at the time these came out. These may have been rejected for that reason and sent for disposal, but didn't quite make it as far as the disposal stage .

Also, I'm aware that some of the Britians stuff under ERTL / RC was produced in the UK by different companies, and that when main manufacturing got transferred to China, some of the molds remained in this country with whoever was doing the work for Britains at the time. I'm guessing any product already in the works wasn't deemed financially viable to ship to China either.

Besides, they're not Britains now, they're mine!

Shame there were only 2 available. Could have made a nice, cheap squadron or two.

 

[Neven Mrgan]

I was talking about the one frindly to america the nationalist. Their was the communist chinese pro- soviet and the nationalist pro-american.I guess you know that but what I know they gave china weapons mosinnagats and ppsh I like to call it push. And even a small band of soviet airmen flew for china.But I don't know about what was going on between them during 1944-1945.