Help with Paint Flaking on Steinhausen and Stahlschmidt (1 Viewer)

[ivanmoe]

I took some pics recently of a couple of figures that I setup with a model airplane. Afterward, I noticed that I might have damaged them in handling. One had a chip in the flesh tone on it's leg, while the other had an abrasion on the skirt of its khaki shorts. At any rate, I matched the paint as best that I could and touched them up. Twenty-four hours later, I went to inspect my handiwork and discovered that a fairly large chip had appeared in the skin tone on the OPPOSITE leg of one figure. It was then that I realized that I had a problem. While the first chip may have been impact damage, there was NO way that the second was. I searched the forum for clues and found a post and pics from rpk/Rich:

Before proceeding any further, I need to thank Rich for posting the pic and description of the issue!:salute::

Also, my situation isn't nearly so severe as his was. Once more using Rich's pic, I've highlighted the location of MY paint failures, thus far, in red:

Again, the emerging paint defects in my figs are far less serious than those that Rich encountered. However, they are real and I suspect will only get worse. I have now repainted the leg defects on the left figure and the rim of the shorts on the right figure. Actions taken, I'm hesitant to handle either of them for fear of losing more of the finish. I also ought to note that there's a fairly thick coat of glossy primer beneath the defects, so that's not the problem.

Question about a possible fix...

Would a sprayed coat of acrylic varnish stop the flaking? Apart from chasing flakes of paint in coming days/months/years, I don't know what else to try other than stripping them and starting all over again.:redface2: Thoughts gentlemen?

-Moe

 

[jazzeum]

Unfortunate situations like yours arise when primer is not used. I haven't had it happen with K & C but I did with Figarti and they looked like your figures until I had my repair person prime it and basically almost have to repaint the whole figure.

 

[DMNamiot]

Johnny has said exactly what I would do to try and fix the issue. If there was no primmer applied before hand this can happen and the varnish will likely not fix the problem. I would consider fully stripping them and then prime etc.

Dave

 

[jazzeum]

I have an excellent repair person, Mike DeMarco, who could do this for you but it won't be cheap because, as Dave said, you may have to repaint almost the whole figure.

 

[ivanmoe]

Both figures really do appear to have been primed. In fact, the shiny white undercoat appears somewhat heavier than I would have imagined.

There was one other instance of flaking on the left figure that I forgot to mention. When I was finished touching-up the second large blemish on its leg, I noticed yet another bare spot on the back of its uniform. The spot was about the size of a pin-head. I set the figure down and looked my hands over. Sure enough, there was a TINY flake of paint on my left index-finger. This really does suggest that the figures can no longer tolerate handling of any kind.

While I'm no expert in the art and/or science of figure painting, these two really don't appear to have been sealed properly (or ar all). Unless someone has another suggestion, I'm going to try sealing them myself with a satin acrylic. Considering how fragile that the pieces are, I can't see how I can do them any harm.


-Moe

 

[johnnybach]

Both figures really do appear to have been primed. In fact, the shiny white undercoat appears somewhat heavier than I would have imagined.

There was one other instance of flaking on the left figure that I forgot to mention. When I was finished touching-up the second large blemish on its leg, I noticed yet another bare spot on the back of its uniform. The spot was about the size of a pin-head. I set the figure down and looked my hands over. Sure enough, there was a TINY flake of paint on my left index-finger. This really does suggest that the figures can no longer tolerate handling of any kind.

While I'm no expert in the art and/or science of figure painting, these two really don't appear to have been sealed properly (or ar all). Unless someone has another suggestion, I'm going to try sealing them myself with a satin acrylic. Considering how fragile that the pieces are, I can't see how I can do them any harm.


-Moe

If no primer had been used - the surface beneath the paint would show up as bare metal. It could be that the coat of white showing through is either some form of primer - or an undercoat of other paint - which is not compatible with the top-coats of coloured paint - and it is flaking off.

Why not ask the manufacturer (a) what is the cause of the paint flaking in this way - and (b) what can be done to rectify this situation?? (Include pictures - if possible).

I have limited experience with matte-painted figures - as I prefer mine in gloss. I have painted in matte for friends - but always use a final coat of matte varnish to "seal in" matte paint - as if you don't - it tends to wear off the figures, over time. None of my painted figures - in either matte or my own in gloss has ever shown flaking of this kind. I use Humbrol - or sometimes Revell paints - but don't know what the manufacturer - or their painter's use. Again, I suggest you perhaps ask for their comments about the paints used - and why this could occur.

Hope this helps resolve a problem - which also appears to be affecting other's figures. jb

 

[ivanmoe]

Why not ask the manufacturer (a) what is the cause of the paint flaking in this way - and (b) what can be done to rectify this situation??

Hi Johnny,

There was actually a 6-page thread on Rich's experience on the KC forum back in 2013:

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?43868-Flaking-Paint!&highlight=rpk+steinhausen

I'm afraid that not much in the way of useful information appeared to come out of his effort. I purchased the figures from a dealer about two years ago, but I doubt that they'd be of much help beyond extending a store-credit, perhaps.

Question for you though...

Did you notice my description of what is apparently primer?. I ask because it has a peculiar property in that it's shiny rather than flat. In my experience, primers are usually a flat and a little "rough" so as to more readily form a bond with the topcoat. Very odd, that shiny white primer.

Thoughts?

-Moe

 

[Obee]

Johnny has said exactly what I would do to try and fix the issue. If there was no primmer applied before hand this can happen and the varnish will likely not fix the problem. I would consider fully stripping them and then prime etc.

Dave

I'd agree with a repaint, seeing the amount of flaking that's continuing. painting over just won't help.

This week I posted some picks of a Collector's Club figure that I've repaired, could be the same problem, but no way as much flaking, so I just painted over.

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...830-Repair-work-to-K-amp-C-Mad-Jock-MacTAVISH

John

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Johnny,

There was actually a 6-page thread on Rich's experience on the KC forum back in 2013:

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?43868-Flaking-Paint!&highlight=rpk+steinhausen

I'm afraid that not much in the way of useful information appeared to come out of his effort. I purchased the figures from a dealer about two years ago, but I doubt that they'd be of much help beyond extending a store-credit, perhaps.

Question for you though...

Did you notice my description of what is apparently primer?. I ask because it has a peculiar property in that it's shiny rather than flat. In my experience, primers are usually a flat and a little "rough" so as to more readily form a bond with the topcoat. Very odd, that shiny white primer.

Thoughts?

-Moe

Yes Moe, I spotted that too. I just don't know what the manufacturer uses for primer - why not just ask???. I use Tamiya spray-on (when I use a stright primer - which is not always). Any matte Humbrol can be used in the same way onto bare metal - and contrary to what most people think - is okay as a primer/undercoat. I've used it that way for over twenty years - and as I wrote - have NEVER had a piece flake.

My primer choice is coloured grey - and also has a matte finish. I agree with you - it sounds odd to have a gloss finish as a primer underneath top coated matte paint. That's why I suggested going back to the manufacturer, to ask what paint they are using, ( or maybe what paint their employees are ACTUALLY using).

Obee seemed to have a similar problem on the item that he restored - so maybe it's a problem that has occurred before with others????

I DO agree, that it seems the only way you will fix such a problem - is a strip and re-paint.

I don't actually look at that part of the forum much - as buying expensive painted figures just isn't my hobby. BUT - if I did - I would be straight onto the manufacturer to ask why it is happening. This could be valuable feedback for the manufacturer - as if he doesn't know what's happening - he can't fix it. It's in his interest to do that - or he might start losing customers.

Hope that helps. jb

 

[Al Fisher]

It's also possible that the undercoating was contaminated with something . . . body oil, machine oil, et cetera . . . that is interfering with the ability of the overcoat to bond. Unfortunately, stripping or a good scrub and touch up would be required prior to repaint. If the latter, a covering of dirt, grass stains, or snow would help blend the color to the original. If touching up, I'd also mask the area not to be painted and cover the area to be painted with a flat clear aerosol paint to form a boundary layer. Good luck!

Bosun Al

 

[ivanmoe]

I just don't know what the manufacturer uses for primer - why not just ask???

Hi Johnny,

I've actually contacted three manufacturers about their materials and methods. Two out of the three responded by stating that these were essentially trade secrets, "we're not talking" as it were. The third didn't respond at all. Not trying to be an instigator, but you'd think that there'd by a section of the forum devoted to those same materials and methods. In its absence, collectors don't even know what type of paint or specific color it might be that's needed to touch up a figure. If you read through the thread that I linked you to, above, you can see the tension build when the topic arises on one of the manufacturer forums. All that I can say is that I'm sure glad that this doesn't happen more frequently.

-Moe

 

[theBaron]

...I've actually contacted three manufacturers about their materials and methods...

Yeah, but--please forgive my ignorance--who made these figures? I didn't see it mentioned explicitly in this thread, though Brad/jazzeum mentioned K&C. If these are K&C, you have one possible, simple solution--Andy is a member of this forum. Ask him about it, either through a PM or through a post in the K&C forum, where it'll be most visible to him.

Prost!
Brad