Future of WWII companies?? (1 Viewer)

[sammy719]

Hi all,

Just want to ask the populace here their opinion on the companies that are or were producing WWII sets and that is I am curious to know if the main players are slowly fading away?? meaning that we all know that Figarti is under new management and hope to be back in the game (hopefully) HB gone as far as matt WWII, Ken who is now in charge of Britains has released some new sets but at a much slower pace then I thought they would, CS seems to have slowed down on producing WWII but has added larger sculpts as well as war gaming sets but not as much in the 1:30th range (please no scale arguments) basically leaving First Legion and King & Country, T. Gunn as the go to sources right now, there have been a few small companies that have attempted to join the metal WWII world but not with much success, it does seem strange a few years back every time you logged on their was a company releasing a new WWII set now not even close, so my good collectors are we coming to a time of less choices or is this just a dry spell between companies??...Sammy

 

[Al Fisher]

Could it be that the market is saturated with WWII figures? Unlike glossy parade figures, a buyer usually purchases only one of a kind, thus limiting sales. Also. the price is not such that you can continue to buy a lot without getting into some pretty big bucks. Just me two cents . . . what's your's?

Bosun Al

 

[jazzeum]

I think the market is saturated and the consumer base is decreasing not increasing. Everybody is fighting for a pot that's shrinking.

 

[sammy719]

I think the market is saturated and the consumer base is decreasing not increasing. Everybody is fighting for a pot that's shrinking.

I agree with you there Brad, I remember back in the day trying to find retired K&C WWII sets and it was dam near impossible but today you can pull up E-Bay on almost any given day and find those same hard to find pieces and at decent prices to boot!!! also I read what is happening at the shows from the guys here on the forum and it sounds like the toy soldiers shows have less and less foot traffic, again I haven't been to any shows in sometime but just going by reports on the forum, as far as the consumer base I haven't a clue but I do know when a certain product is selling and everyone is making a dollar there are more companies on board, now that the trend seems to have halted it looks like WWII is on the back burner, that being said First Legion seems to be doing well with it's WWII range and by the quick sell outs of the last few AFVs they have found a solid following there, and K&C will always do well with their WWII collectors, T. Gunn is a extension of K&C which can go hand and hand with style/painting, but other then that it's all quiet on the WWII toy soldier front at this time...Sammy

 

[Jack]

Wherever there is change, there is opportunity. The success of TG's Romans show that there are still opportunities in ranges other than WW2. I also suspect that by 2018 WW1 will be on the backburner for a lot of collectors so there will be other opportunities. That said, are we ever going to live in a world where someone says 'No-one has done a Tiger in years ... now there's an opportunity'?

 

[maddadicus]

I think the market is saturated and the consumer base is decreasing not increasing. Everybody is fighting for a pot that's shrinking.

I wonder if a poll was taken of TS collector parents, would their older children be as interested in the hobby as we are? My 35 year old son could care less about TS ,though he still is a history fan, as well as World Of Tanks gamer and WW2 board game player..Michael

 

[wayne556517]

Plenty of stuff to do that hasn't been done before Butch as K&C and TGM showed us this month.







Plus a heap of planes,non combat vehicles,artillery so i can't see it coming to a sudden end,I'm actually excited to think what they will think off and come up with next.

 

[jazzeum]

There are definitely some new and exciting things coming out of these two companies, together with FL. However, I don't believe that's the issue. The issue is what is the outlook.

I have a small but nice collection of mint US stamps that I collected since grade school with my father as he was a collector when he was young. In fact, I have his original book that he typed up, describing each issue, e.g., the historical background, first day of issue and amount issued. I followed the same practice when I had a manual typewriter.

Unfortunately, over the years I've lost interest in the collection and a couple of years ago visited a local stamp store to see if I could sell it. The owner said unless the items were very rare, he could give me only a fraction of what they were worth. I asked him why. He said that the collector base is graying and they are picky about quality and could be very choosy. The problem is that kids and people under 40 were no longer interested in stamps. He said if it was the reverse, there would be more competition for collections like mine.

I see that happening with this hobby: graying and not replacing the older collectors. Manufacturers and dealers chasing a shrinking base.

 

[lancer]

I wonder if a poll was taken of TS collector parents, would their older children be as interested in the hobby as we are? My 35 year old son could care less about TS ,though he still is a history fan, as well as World Of Tanks gamer and WW2 board game player..Michael

Good point here. I have 2 sons, now 38 and 34 years old, and try as I did when they were kids, I never got them interested in TS, or even history for that matter. But I will have the last laugh. I have told them that they need to learn the TS and military book secondary markets, because that is where their inheritance doth lay.:wink2:{eek3} -- Al

 

[jomartvr]

I agree with Brad and would suggest that another factor is in broadstrokes a poor educational system in the USA. Most of the undergraduate and even some graduate students that I teach are ignorant when it comes to US and World History. A number of purported graduate students had never heard of Stalin! If the general public is not well educated, then this further constricts the number of potential collectors. Also military history and collecting toy soldiers is not politically correct, hence the pool of collectors is smaller still. In all rather sad to see.

 

[sammy719]

Plenty of stuff to do that hasn't been done before Butch as K&C and TGM showed us this month.



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Plus a heap of planes,non combat vehicles,artillery so i can't see it coming to a sudden end,I'm actually excited to think what they will think off and come up with next.

I hear you there Butch, K&C, T. Gunn are both doing some great new sets...Sammy

 

[sammy719]

I wonder if a poll was taken of TS collector parents, would their older children be as interested in the hobby as we are? My 35 year old son could care less about TS ,though he still is a history fan, as well as World Of Tanks gamer and WW2 board game player..Michael

Well I have a 18 year old son who was somewhat interested in the hobby as a young boy when we went to a few West Coasters and he got to pick out some Civil War sets and I began buying him a few Civil War sets each year for Christmas but as he got older he basically asked me to stop buying the Civil War stuff as he just wasn't interested in it any longer, now his friends from the Cross Country/Track teams come over all the time and I have had the good fortune to show many of them my collection of dioramas/Curio Cabinet displays and such and basically get the deer in the head light look and lots of questions about prices, as soon as I mention the price of 1 single soldier I hear gasps of "WHAT"!!!?? no way dude, are you crazy!!!! so yes, they are all amazed by the detail, etc. etc. but very few have any knowledge of WWII except what they learn playing Call of Duty on their Playstation and believe that 50 bucks could buy a lot more then 1 toy soldier, so fellas I believe once we 40, 50, 60 year old guys move on the hobby might be in trouble, I certainly could be misreading this entirely but got to ask any of you, how many young adults do you know are collecting any type of WWII product besides video games?? think about our own forum here, do we have any collectors here under the age of 30??...Sammy

 

[bradleyl30]

I am not sure I agree as we also have new entrants of Ready4Action and KronPrinz. I personally think the market is changing and not necessarily shrinking. I do think there are new collectors popping up in new countries, new entrants and the market is becoming segmented and becoming two distinct markets led by two distinct market leaders. This is creating greater levels of competition which these leaders and their "fast" and "slow" followers will need to keep up. Some will come, some will go, some will prosper and some will hang around. I think the signs are of a healthy market figuring itself out.

 

[Rutledge]

Many good points. There are (IMO) several macro trends in play that affect Toy Soldiers and well beyond it.

Retailers of all stripes are being hurt by online/Amazon sales. Store fronts are less and less common because of the expense. There is better return on investing in a great website than a physical store presence. But without stores its harder for new collectors to appreciate the somewhat obscure world of toy soldiers. TS are always better viewed in person. With so few of them its hard to pull new collectors in.

Today's design world is all about clean lines and less clutter. Hoarding is out of fashion, as is collecting, generally. People understand anything that gets hot in the collectible world eventually becomes overrun by speculators and then goes back to its natural order. Thats where we are.

People rent, they dont buy. The latest and greatest iphone is discarded after 2 years because its old and worthless. Patiently building a collection of something is hopelessly out of date for Millenials. Youth rules, the past is obsolete.

No trends persist forever but they are in place at the moment.

 

[Warrior]

I have a small but nice collection of toy soldiers that I collected since grade school with my father as he was a collector when he was young. In fact, I have his original book that he typed up, describing each issue, e.g., the historical background, first day of issue and amount issued. I followed the same practice when I had a manual typewriter.

Unfortunately, over the years I've lost interest in the collection and a couple of years ago visited a local toy soldier store to see if I could sell it. The owner said unless the items were very rare, he could give me only a fraction of what they were worth. I asked him why. He said that the collector base is graying and they are picky about quality and could be very choosy. The problem is that kids and people under 40 were no longer interested in toy soldiers. He said if it was the reverse, there would be more competition for collections like mine.

I see that happening with this hobby: graying and not replacing the older collectors. Manufacturers and dealers chasing a shrinking base.

Brad,
I fixed it for you...........................same church, different pew, sad but true................................hobbies and collecting in general appeal to those 40 and up, specifically baby boomers. As they die off, there are few people to replace them, specifically millennials, who could give a rats behind about collectibles in general......................

 

[nmrocks]

I think there is a large group of younger people that in the past might have collected historical but are into Fantasy and Sci/fi figures and gaming, just look whats coming out of Hollywood and I think you can see the change in direction, not necassarily dying out. Hollywood has focused on the evil and human costs of war and made it politically incorrect but somehow made the gore and carnage of Sci/fi and Fantasy acceptable?
Ray

 

[bradleyl30]

Speaking of which, what would be good manufacturers or lines to get a 12 year old started on? I have done some 1/72 stuff, but he is interested in some bigger stuff after seeing my collection.

Blackhawk (even if not WW2)?

 

[PanzerAce1944]

There was a mention about a decreasing pot and the Toy Soldier Shows shrinking. I can only speak from my own experiences . I have attended the Texas Show every year since 2010.
This particular show has grown every year that I have attended. This past year the dealer numbers grew to a point where another display room was acquired to meet demand.
During this years 2 day show, there were people at my tables the majority of the time.....Busy. Collector enthusiasm was high. The smart companies are making different new products
to keep the interest of buyers.....I:E 1/6th scale Figures, New different armor, personality figures, Diorama sets, etc........keep people coming back....IMO
Where this market winds up in 5 years is anyone's guess.

Wayne

 

[Sahara]

Thankfully, I'm not a millennial. In the same token I will not be 40 for another 3 years. I guess I can say I will be one of the "last man standing" so to speak. Like many others I have tried to keep my son who is now 13 interested in the hobby. For many years he was interested in plastics but that slowly faded away. Now the only things he thinks about is video games, his phone, friends, girls, food and sleep. The only thing I can take comfort in is the fact that I went through this phase as well. I lost interest in toy soldiers around his age and then returned to the hobby around the age 30. I'm hoping he does the same but he has already expressed that he really has no interest unless someone starts manufacturing figures from modern conflicts. Where I grew up on Battleground, GI Joe etc... He grew up on Blackhawk Down, Navy Seals etc..... He plays all the games involving modern conflicts so that is what he relates to. This hobby will be banking on our youth coming back to their child hood memories and hopefully one of these big manufacturers will catch on and start a modern conflict line.

 

[Poppo]

Brad,
I fixed it for you...........................same church, different pew, sad but true................................hobbies and collecting in general appeal to those 40 and up, specifically baby boomers. As they die off, there are few people to replace them, specifically millennials, who could give a rats behind about collectibles in general......................

Right, but also the manufacturers are probably 40 and up, so when the customers will die off, also the manufacturers will die and the question is solved.