2008 Predictions (1 Viewer)

jazzeum said:
Kevin,

Nothing to moderate as far as I can see as I am in full agreement with you. Perhaps this comes out of living overseas for a good many years and attending British schools.
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Never mind Brad, how is the 'duel' citizenship coming.....:D
 
damian said:
Now Kevin
We Brits and people of British descent have always prided ourselves on the great traditions of the British army. We have always especially been proud of our great insights into strategy and tactics as practiced over 300 years. Islanwana, Majuba, Colenso, Spion Kop, The retreat from Kabul, The Charge of the Light Brigade, Singapore, The Battle of the Somme. There is nothing more stiring to those of British heriatge than a good old fashioned stuff up that we can subsequently immortalize. Lt Snook the OC of the Royal Regiment of Wales is about to release a book on British military disasters. When he announced this on the Zulu War forum one wag immdeiatley responded " Is this a multi volume history" Our American cousins are simply trying to continue this fine tradition.
Regards
Damian Clarke:):):)
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Damian, multi volume it is then!:D How big is the corresponding hollywood film list?:confused::rolleyes:
 
Kevin,

You know that I am very pro-British, and certainly respect your efforts during the war, both before and after we arrived at the party a bit late. My answer to your question, why does Hollywood take pot-shots at the British in WWII movies, is very simple: Monty's extremely poor PR capabilities. Remember after our long discussion of old Monty in July, I agreed that he was a competent comander, but that personality wise he was a class 1-A-1 A-Hole. Look to history: Monty had a big mouth. He loved bragging about his accomplishments, denegrating his competitors, and was not above taking credit for other people's successes. As a result, he thorougly pissed off virtually all of his American allies, and that anger still exists. It is far easier to get an American to complement German generals like Rommell or Guderian than it is to complement Monty. And to us, he is the face of the British forces during WWII. So yes, American movies constantly take pot shots at Monty, and viewing him (incorrectly) as an incompetent as well as (accurately) an egocentric putz, we project that image on the British forces who served with or under Monty.

Is it right? Absolutely not, and I have repeatedly taken the side of British and Commonwealth forces in these debates, and deservedly so. Heroic, competent and well led (most of the time), the forces of Britain and its Commonwealth carried the water for the free world, pretty much alone, until Hitler launched Barbarossa and brought the Soviets in on our side.

But will Monty ever get a positive portrayal in the American media? Not bloody likely, and deservedly so as well. He treated Americans like bumpkins, talked down to us in the media, so he will always be a hated figure here, no matter what he did to defeat the Nazis. Remember, the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.
 
panda1gen said:
Damian, multi volume it is then!:D How big is the corresponding hollywood film list?:confused::rolleyes:
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Kevin
The Brits can make their own films.
Zulu, Zulu Dawn, Khartoum, The Four Feathers ( original 1938 version) , Ice Cold in Alex, The Cruel Sea, Ill Met by Moolight, Cockleshell heroes.
Regards
Damian
 
Louis Badolato said:
Kevin,

You know that I am very pro-British, and certainly respect your efforts during the war, both before and after we arrived at the party a bit late. My answer to your question, why does Hollywood take pot-shots at the British in WWII movies, is very simple: Monty's extremely poor PR capabilities. Remember after our long discussion of old Monty in July, I agreed that he was a competent comander, but that personality wise he was a class 1-A-1 A-Hole. Look to history: Monty had a big mouth. He loved bragging about his accomplishments, denegrating his competitors, and was not above taking credit for other people's successes. As a result, he thorougly pissed off virtually all of his American allies, and that anger still exists. It is far easier to get an American to complement German generals like Rommell or Guderian than it is to complement Monty. And to us, he is the face of the British forces during WWII. So yes, American movies constantly take pot shots at Monty, and viewing him (incorrectly) as an incompetent as well as (accurately) an egocentric putz, we project that image on the British forces who served with or under Monty.

Is it right? Absolutely not, and I have repeatedly taken the side of British and Commonwealth forces in these debates, and deservedly so. Heroic, competent and well led (most of the time), the forces of Britain and its Commonwealth carried the water for the free world, pretty much alone, until Hitler launched Barbarossa and brought the Soviets in on our side.

But will Monty ever get a positive portrayal in the American media? Not bloody likely, and deservedly so as well. He treated Americans like bumpkins, talked down to us in the media, so he will always be a hated figure here, no matter what he did to defeat the Nazis. Remember, the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.
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As always, point well made -

But Monty wasn't in the Royal Navy, the RAF, the Canadian, Australian, Polish Armies etc etc etc

And he did hold up most of the German armour around Caen,

http://www.germanwarmachine.com/waffenss/1944/battleforcaen.htm

See map - if a coupole more had been further west would Patton have moved so fast..............

and the US were offered 79th Armour, and and and...............................

He also wasn't in Burma (Merrils Marauders) etc etc............................

Can the American Public not be trusted to understand the US can sometimes play a part rather than the whole? Monty was just one bloke - would like to be judged by Patton????????????????????????????????????????
 
panda1gen said:
As always, point well made -

But Monty wasn't in the Royal Navy, the RAF, the Canadian, Australian, Polish Armies etc etc etc

And he did hold up most of the German armour around Caen,

http://www.germanwarmachine.com/waffenss/1944/battleforcaen.htm

See map - if a coupole more had been further west would Patton have moved so fast..............

and the US were offered 79th Armour, and and and...............................

He also wasn't in Burma (Merrils Marauders) etc etc............................

Can the American Public not be trusted to understand the US can sometimes play a part rather than the whole? Monty was just one bloke - would like to be judged by Patton????????????????????????????????????????
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Kevin,

Point well taken. You know very well that my favorite commander of WWII is Bill Slim from the 14th (Forgotten) Army in Burma, so I certainly can see the Brits being a bit taken about by Hollywood protraying the Japs being single-handedly defeated by Merrill's Marauders. However, as George MacDonald Fraser, who served under Slim, stated in his book "Quartered Safe Out Here", while many of his comrads were less than thrilled with this movie, Merrill's Mauraders did do fine work, and if Hollywood wanted to portray their exploits rather than those of British forces like the Chindits, it was no skin off his nose.

I don't know of any movies that denegrate the abilities of the Royal Navy or the RAF, whom as far as I know are held in very high regard by the Americans. Heck, the forces that fought the Battle of Britain are universally considered to be among the greatest heroes of all time here in the U.S., as far as I know.

Most of the anti-British comments I see in movies are about British ground forces (for example Patton [primarily trashing Monty], Saving Private Ryan [again trahsing Monty], A Bridge Too Far [again trashing Monty and his staff - do you sense a pattern here?], Band of Brothers [trashing 30 Corps Brits serving under Monty -- while, on the other hand giving a ton of respect to the British Paras in Arnhem]). Face it Kevin, Americans love our British counsins, we just hate Monty!

Oh, and as you know, I would not like to be judged based on Patton's conduct. He and Monty were a match made in heaven, personality wise. They deserved each other.
 
LOL - it is no fun arguing with you, we agree too much!:D

Must ask my friends in the film industry to slip a few one liners in aboutr Patton into every war film - might get a response!:eek:
 
damian said:
Kevin
The Brits can make their own films.
Zulu, Zulu Dawn, Khartoum, The Four Feathers ( original 1938 version) , Ice Cold in Alex, The Cruel Sea, Ill Met by Moolight, Cockleshell heroes.
Regards
Damian
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Damian - that is my point - we can laugh at ourselves (let's face it, we have had enough practice)

Just watched Dunkirk - 5 quid DVD - brilliant - no punches pulled that somebody misjudged something there.
 
panda1gen said:
So can I start a 'can we have some Polish troops' thread?
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Absolutely! I would like to see some Polish pilots for the Battle of Britain, some Polish Paratroops (including Gene Hackman's character) for Arnhem, some Polish Armor for Normandy . . .
 
Monty must have been an aquired tatse. My late father in law, Old man Verco who lived next door to us when I was a boy and Rene Salati a great friend of my father who without ever finishing high school ran a very succesful construction company all fought with the South African army in the desert and all to a man would have died for Monty. They thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe they were looking through rose tinted spectacles when they told me all these stories abck in the 1970's but their admiration for him always shone through. Old man Verco even had a bulldog called Monty.
Regards
Damian Clarke
 
damian said:
Monty must have been an aquired tatse. My late father in law, Old man Verco who lived next door to us when I was a boy and Rene Salati a great friend of my father who without ever finishing high school ran a very succesful construction company all fought with the South African army in the desert and all to a man would have died for Monty. They thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe they were looking through rose tinted spectacles when they told me all these stories abck in the 1970's but their admiration for him always shone through. Old man Verco even had a bulldog called Monty.
Regards
Damian Clarke
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Monty took excellent care of the troops under his command and was generally loved by them.

Interestingly enough, Patton's men either loved him or hated him. I was having breakfast with my best friend Billy McGrath and my good friend US Army Major Christopher Sybert in a diner on 3rd Avenue off the corner of 24th Street in NYC, telling them the story of Patton's misguided raid 30 miles behind enemy lines to try to rescue his son-in-law from the German POW camp (which cost an entire combat command of the Second Armored Division), when an elderly gentleman who served under Patton darn near called me out. I was also friendly with General Mike Kokinos, who as a young officer served under Patton during the Battle of the Bulge (when I was clerking for his good friend and hand-ball partner the late Judge Joe J. Fisher) and he told me that a lot of Patton's men, when he was called "old blood and guts" would say "yeah, our blood, his guts!"
 
damian said:
Monty must have been an aquired tatse. My late father in law, Old man Verco who lived next door to us when I was a boy and Rene Salati a great friend of my father who without ever finishing high school ran a very succesful construction company all fought with the South African army in the desert and all to a man would have died for Monty. They thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe they were looking through rose tinted spectacles when they told me all these stories abck in the 1970's but their admiration for him always shone through. Old man Verco even had a bulldog called Monty.
Regards
Damian Clarke
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Hey may have been 'as quick and likeable as a ferret' - but he was our ferret, a popular pet in some parts when I was a kid......
 
PATTON was a GOD !

The War GOD !!


Pull Pin ..... Throw Gernade .... Wait for it... Wait for it.... :eek: :eek: :eek:




hehehe - I love it :D
 
Late war Stug with side skirts in the ambush scheme or a winter scheme, panzer IV with turret and hull skirts, wounded sets for Arnhem series including a wounded figure of Frost, Late Tiger!!!!!!!! You can tell I am a Kraut Kollector!!!!!!
 
panda1gen said:
And before anyone starts I am not anti-American, I do appreciate the sacrifices made and great generousity shown by the American people, not just in WW2 but since......
.................................................................................

So to end at least 'on message' - my hope and hopefully prediction for 2008 is that we get more British and Commonwealth troops - especially I hope for the gallant Poles who fought arguably the longest and the hardest battles of anyone in the whole of WW2.
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Kevin,
I also am NOT anti-american per se, but I do agree with your comments. Why are we always portrayed as sadistic incompetents by holywood? Much as I do like the movie, "Patton" its one of the more extreme examples of this trend. Even our beautiful Brit ladies are slagged off in this film. Which is not on....:mad::mad: For a true representation of attractive Brit talent, just check oot any of the freely-available Benny Hill DVD's.
I do tend to go along with Louis on Monty though. His PR was atrocious. Maybe its the public school accent that grates.
I would love to see more K&C Brit/Commonwealth/Poles/and so on being produced.
Cheers
H
 
Patton was made something like forty years ago. So I wouldn't waste too much sleep on how the Brits were portrayed in that film. Remember all those WWII hollywood flicks portray us americans as unruly, brawling, drunken, womanizing, not too swift, let loveable regular joes handing out plenty of chocolate bars to the kiddies while we kick nazi butt. Ok maybe some truth in that stereotype. Anyway I thought the beef was with the Greeks who you left in the lurch.;)
 
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