“Forget the Wild West… Welcome to the Wild East!” (1 Viewer)

King & Country

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Hi Guys,

Every few weeks brother Gordon takes a trip around some of Hong Kong’s lesser-known street markets looking for interesting model items that he can use in his dioramas and displays.

Imagine his surprise when he came upon a stall selling lots of toy soldiers and military vehicles. Gordon quickly checked out the vendor’s display to see if there was any K&C.

Fortunately for us there was not… however he did spot among a host of old Del Prados, what looked like a pretty large collection of… Collector’s Showcase and First Legion.

He recognized CS’s relatively new Marders and Tigers selling for just US$15 each! Plus some of their newer American Civil War figures going for only US$5 a piece.

Next to all the CS product was some First Legion… Napoleonic Old Guard mostly and... what looked suspiciously like their upcoming Russian houses… priced at about US$35 a building. What also caught his eye were some really nice Eastern Front WWII figures… Gordon picked a couple up and inspected the bases but alas, there was no name, just a plain, black coloured base.

So, to be honest, we can’t say they were or were not First Legion. The salesman himself said they were just samples and would be available in a couple of weeks time.

Gordon thought the painting style and sculpting definitely looked first class and like FL. So, who knows?

Producing in China, as many of us do, has many advantages… it can also have its fair share of drawbacks. This sort of thing… unofficial selling of product is more common than you might think.

Over the years K&C has stumbled upon some of our own products being unofficially sold in street markets… model shops and, in one major case, a well-known department store in Bangkok!!!

Sadly, it’s not unknown for factories to do a little extra “run-on” for their own profit… or for rejected goods to suddenly reappear. Sometimes, as I’ve experienced, if there is a dispute over quality or payment then the factory just “dumps” the product to make a quick buck.

Finally, there is the unscrupulous foreman or factory manager who just sells a box or two of someone’s product to a mate of his and pockets the money.

In the past K&C has fired factories over this and, in one case brought a prosecution against (and won) a factory manager for illegally selling our product without our knowledge or approval.

All manufacturers hate to see this and I would urge collectors never to buy “cut-price bargains” no matter how cheap they are. Ultimately it harms the hobby and the business.

Unfortunately while Gordon was inspecting all this stuff along came a certain collector (a member of this Forum) who then purchased a pretty big chunk of the CS and FL. When Gordon told him about the illegal status of what he was buying the response was, “So what, when I see a bargain, I’m going to take advantage of it!”

Sad but true.
Oh well such is life.

Best wishes and happy collecting!
Andy C.
 
An interesting story. I believe it is very common in the diecast world. In 1998 I dealt with a major company in Hong Kong that made products for well known brands such as Ertly, Corgi etc. They made the USS Missouri for Franklin Mint (mould cost US$750,000 !).Their office was in Tsim Sha Tsui and there was a diecast shop in the bottom of their building. They regularly saw items in that shop which should not have been available in Hong Kong.
As Andy says there is plenty of opportunity for stock to go out of the back door.
If the quantity is a lot it could cause considerable loss to the legal owners of the brand.
Having said that I have just booked my ticket !!!
Regards
Brett
 
Hi Guys,

Every few weeks brother Gordon takes a trip around some of Hong Kong’s lesser-known street markets looking for interesting model items that he can use in his dioramas and displays.

Imagine his surprise when he came upon a stall selling lots of toy soldiers and military vehicles. Gordon quickly checked out the vendor’s display to see if there was any K&C.

Fortunately for us there was not… however he did spot among a host of old Del Prados, what looked like a pretty large collection of… Collector’s Showcase and First Legion.

He recognized CS’s relatively new Marders and Tigers selling for just US$15 each! Plus some of their newer American Civil War figures going for only US$5 a piece.

Next to all the CS product was some First Legion… Napoleonic Old Guard mostly and... what looked suspiciously like their upcoming Russian houses… priced at about US$35 a building. What also caught his eye were some really nice Eastern Front WWII figures… Gordon picked a couple up and inspected the bases but alas, there was no name, just a plain, black coloured base.

So, to be honest, we can’t say they were or were not First Legion. The salesman himself said they were just samples and would be available in a couple of weeks time.

Gordon thought the painting style and sculpting definitely looked first class and like FL. So, who knows?

Producing in China, as many of us do, has many advantages… it can also have its fair share of drawbacks. This sort of thing… unofficial selling of product is more common than you might think.

Over the years K&C has stumbled upon some of our own products being unofficially sold in street markets… model shops and, in one major case, a well-known department store in Bangkok!!!

Sadly, it’s not unknown for factories to do a little extra “run-on” for their own profit… or for rejected goods to suddenly reappear. Sometimes, as I’ve experienced, if there is a dispute over quality or payment then the factory just “dumps” the product to make a quick buck.

Finally, there is the unscrupulous foreman or factory manager who just sells a box or two of someone’s product to a mate of his and pockets the money.

In the past K&C has fired factories over this and, in one case brought a prosecution against (and won) a factory manager for illegally selling our product without our knowledge or approval.

All manufacturers hate to see this and I would urge collectors never to buy “cut-price bargains” no matter how cheap they are. Ultimately it harms the hobby and the business.

Unfortunately while Gordon was inspecting all this stuff along came a certain collector (a member of this Forum) who then purchased a pretty big chunk of the CS and FL. When Gordon told him about the illegal status of what he was buying the response was, “So what, when I see a bargain, I’m going to take advantage of it!”

Sad but true.
Oh well such is life.

Best wishes and happy collecting!
Andy C.

Did he get any photos? Would have been nice to get a scoop there, maybe Gordon should go work for The SUN Newspaper!
 
which street did you say:D:D Have seen some britains WW2 artillery sets and WW2 figures and a few K&C old arnhem figures (with black berets:D) in guangzhou t-shopping centre last year. but didn't see anything in large quantities:)
 
This is what I've said before but nobody listened...

I saw lots of Del Prado figures sold for few HK bucks in the street and I've seen them for years.

IT is not news anymore, at least for a lot of HK collectors like me.
 
That is just so wrong. That is robbing from families like Matt's. That includes collectors that buy the items knowing they are "hot". Besides financial restitution, I believe a horse whipping is in order for those involved.
 
To be honest I,d be more suprised if this didnt go on, anything with any
value seems to get pirated .You dont need a skull and cross bones in this
day and age :eek:.
 
I thought April 1st had been and gone :rolleyes:

Jeff

Upon reading this little "story," I was instantly reminded of the first line of Edgar Allen Poe's poem The Raven:

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
`'Tis some visitor,' I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
Only this, and nothing more.'​

This story has all the makings of some sort of dream, perhaps akin to the television show Dallas for those of you who remember it.

This pondering or dream is nothing short but a shot across the bow to a couple of manufacturers, one that K & C has tangled with on this Forum and one that K & C may perceive to be a threat.

It's also quite interesting that Herr Oberst has chimed in. I wonder who he really is:rolleyes:
 
You know - When I saw the title of this Thread - I thought we might be heading to the swamps of Florida for some new Indians .... alas it was going farther EAST :D

THE SEMINOLE CAMPAIGN WILL CONTINUE !
 
I fail to see the point in this thread, there is nothing stated that we don't already know :rolleyes:
 
I fail to see the point in this thread, there is nothing stated that we don't already know :rolleyes:
I think the point is quite clear. If the story is correct, then it is a useful warning against piracy and while we all may know it happens, it is always useful to know of the details when they appear. If Brad is right, well that is something else again.:(
 
I must say that I don't see the purpose of this thread either.

In any case, let's assume it is correct, then Del Prado, FL, CS are the Hermes', Gucci's, Versace's, Parda's etc of this world - everyone wants to possess pieces of these collections and people go as far as forging them.

And it is not so complimentary for K&C as they are not on that list. Tststs

Would have been interesting to see pictures of these fakes.
 
That’s why I diplomatically put it down as a late April fools joke. Couldn’t really be more obvious could it!

Jeff
Well not to put to fine a point on it but yes, I think it could.;) It is not much of a joke and certainly pointless if not true.
 
Whether events described are fictional or non-fictional, I fail to see the relevance of this thread on a collectors forum. Seems like more of a manufacturers concern. Agree it also smacks of taking a cheap shot at the competition on several levels I think as others have already stated. :confused:

MD
 
Whether events described are fictional or non-fictional, I fail to see the relevance of this thread on a collectors forum. Seems like more of a manufacturers concern. Agree it also smacks of taking a cheap shot at the competition on several levels I think as others have already stated. :confused:

MD
Well Dave, I can see the relevance if it is true but either way, what is the shot? I must be dense but all it would say to me is that those manufacturers produce items that are highly desirable. The fact that someone would try and profit from that illegally is not insulting unless you take it as a suggestion that they cannot manage their affairs such as to prevent that, which is a notion silly on its face. If it is a cheap shot, then it is so pathetically anemic as to be more humorous than critical. I find the level of stupidity implied by that to be rather hard to digest.:eek:;)
 
I agree on the strange point of this thread..i think this hobby is full of great people (producers and collectors) so i hope this story is false..i rate the toy soldiers as little work of arts..let's say i collect the works of Leonardo , what the point in collecting fake Leonardo's reproductions (it's only vague example)?I'm a bit naif in this respect i know..but it's the driving force behind the term collector..
 

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