3-D Printer Tech (1 Viewer)

ivanmoe

Command Sergeant Major
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Now, this certainly looks interesting:

http://store.makerbot.com/digitizer

To tell you the truth, however, I'm not too interested in replacing Toy Soldier sculpting/casting with digitized reproductions. However, the printers might be able to make some sweet looking vehicles and other models that are more accurate in dimension and scale than what we see now. For that matter, upscaling a kit from 1/35 (or 1/32) to 1/30 would be as simple as applying a coefficient to the image and then "letting her rip." Of course, anyone who wanted to sell the resulting item would have to license their work from the fellas who hold the intellectual rights. Like I said, interesting. :wink2:
 
We're getting closer every year but we're not quite there yet. I like to do conversions on my Conte and other plastics. I'm not satisfied with ANYBODY'S rendition of the US Rifle M1 ("Garand") so I put out a feeler about what it might take to get a good pattern printed one to use as a resin master. It would still be awfully expensive. The costs would go down if you know CAD programming or can get it done cheap. NO printed version will ever be better than the pattern information going into the computer. Then there is the issue of the rough areas - created by the layers of resin ink. Some printers are better than other, but the problem is still there on some parts. Another problem is the price - right now to through in a fiile and "ler 'er rip" for a 1/30th tank would be right up there with buying one of each K&C vehicle from the Treefrog list.

All these issues will come down in price and rise in availability as various entrepeneurs get into the field and as competition increases - hooray for capitalism! Can you imagine - the day may come when you could go to a group of reenactors and scan each one then print out a batch of "toy" soldiers, each with the individual face of the original?
 
We're getting closer every year but we're not quite there yet. I like to do conversions on my Conte and other plastics. I'm not satisfied with ANYBODY'S rendition of the US Rifle M1 ("Garand") so I put out a feeler about what it might take to get a good pattern printed one to use as a resin master. It would still be awfully expensive. The costs would go down if you know CAD programming or can get it done cheap. NO printed version will ever be better than the pattern information going into the computer. Then there is the issue of the rough areas - created by the layers of resin ink. Some printers are better than other, but the problem is still there on some parts. Another problem is the price - right now to through in a fiile and "ler 'er rip" for a 1/30th tank would be right up there with buying one of each K&C vehicle from the Treefrog list.

All these issues will come down in price and rise in availability as various entrepeneurs get into the field and as competition increases - hooray for capitalism! Can you imagine - the day may come when you could go to a group of reenactors and scan each one then print out a batch of "toy" soldiers, each with the individual face of the original?

One "development" to watch for is the ability of the printers to extrude metals like zinc, pewter or even steel (instead of resin or other plastics). And I hope that TS manufacturers will be open-minded to the idea. Seems that I remember my wife's fellow photographers being so dismissive of digital imaging, in fact, downright contemptuous of THAT technology. I say, "scan those re-enactors, and let's get on with production!"

Finally, I found a video of a beautiful model "build" that I wanted to share:

[video=youtube;K1zV8JMwrvs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K1zV8JMwrvs[/video]

Now clearly, that "car" would be insanely expensive to create and is far more grandiose than anything that I had in mind. Pretty, impressive though, IMO.:cool:
 
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I was in a Mall that has a Microsoft owned retail store. They had a desktop 3D printing on display and it was creating sample plastic products. It was making little plastic animal figures that looked like they would be 54mm compatilble. Was really cool to see it in use. If you have a Microsoft store near you stop in and check it out, they probably have one on display.

Walt
 
WOW you can get some great detail,watching this with interest not so much for figures but for buildings etc for diorama,s.
Imagine being able to print out anything you need for a dio.
 
3 d printer = the end of toysoldier industry {sm4}
 
3 d printer = the end of toysoldier industry {sm4}

I see the technology as something that would allow TS manufacturers to lower their costs. For instance, it would allow them to manipulate a prototype to get it just the way that they like before creating the master mold. It would also allow them to modify existing figures with minimal effort. That means serious cost savings. In terms of the pewter/tin/white metal end of the business, we're not to the point where metal can be extruded in a method which rivals simple castings cost-wise, not even close. Finally, should it someday be possible to create metal soldiers with some variation of the technology, the figures would still have to be painted. For that matter, I believe that much of the cost increase that we've seen is being driven by embellishment, paint and markings. It's important for the manufacturers to cut costs where they can, don't you think?:)
 
I have been following this thread with great interest and would like to add a few personal comments.
Like so may others I was absolutly blown away by the seemingly endless possibilities
those new 3D-printers seemed to offer. Just scan in an existing model have it printed at your desired "right" scale, make a mold
of your 3D-print, cast it, paint it, sell it and become rich the quick way.
Now it simply does not work like this at all. Again one of those stories that will start with that big "WELL IN THEORY NO PROBLEM, - BUT....
As of three years ago I began my very personal naive journey to tackle just this BUT.

Like with all of those new things there is a rather steep learning-curve.
To keep a long and most of all quite expensive story short my statement is the following: The excessable and affordable means of produceing master-models for reproduction at a quality-level aren´t simply available yet. You will have to invest a lot of work and funds to make things work out for you. The available 3D-printing-technique simply is not THE universal, fool-proof manufacture method,
For example to create the tracks of a tank as a 3D-print might be the best way of produceing a quality part but when it comes to createing a strait model of a hull or a turrent the results are simply awfull. The clearly visible printing lines - owed to the "layer-by-layer" 3D-print technique - being the major problem among others.
Still after three years of trial and error I might be able to present my first AFV model sometime this summer. Yet there are still so many problems to be taken care of, that the whole project still remains uncertain.
Anyway if I succeed I will put the model on show here at the forum and gather my won experiences in much more detail.
I do not think that 3D-printing will ruin the TS hobby in the years to come simply and foremost because it is not up to the job-- yet.

rgds
Wolfgang
 
I have been following this thread with great interest and would like to add a few personal comments.
Like so may others I was absolutly blown away by the seemingly endless possibilities
those new 3D-printers seemed to offer. Just scan in an existing model have it printed at your desired "right" scale, make a mold
of your 3D-print, cast it, paint it, sell it and become rich the quick way.
Now it simply does not work like this at all. Again one of those stories that will start with that big "WELL IN THEORY NO PROBLEM, - BUT....
As of three years ago I began my very personal naive journey to tackle just this BUT.

Like with all of those new things there is a rather steep learning-curve.
To keep a long and most of all quite expensive story short my statement is the following: The excessable and affordable means of produceing master-models for reproduction at a quality-level aren´t simply available yet. You will have to invest a lot of work and funds to make things work out for you. The available 3D-printing-technique simply is not THE universal, fool-proof manufacture method,
For example to create the tracks of a tank as a 3D-print might be the best way of produceing a quality part but when it comes to createing a strait model of a hull or a turrent the results are simply awfull. The clearly visible printing lines - owed to the "layer-by-layer" 3D-print technique - being the major problem among others.
Still after three years of trial and error I might be able to present my first AFV model sometime this summer. Yet there are still so many problems to be taken care of, that the whole project still remains uncertain.
Anyway if I succeed I will put the model on show here at the forum and gather my won experiences in much more detail.
I do not think that 3D-printing will ruin the TS hobby in the years to come simply and foremost because it is not up to the job-- yet.

rgds
Wolfgang

Wolfgang

It will be really interesting to see those photographs!

Jack
 
I see the technology as something that would allow TS manufacturers to lower their costs. For instance, it would allow them to manipulate a prototype to get it just the way that they like before creating the master mold. It would also allow them to modify existing figures with minimal effort. That means serious cost savings. In terms of the pewter/tin/white metal end of the business, we're not to the point where metal can be extruded in a method which rivals simple castings cost-wise, not even close. Finally, should it someday be possible to create metal soldiers with some variation of the technology, the figures would still have to be painted. For that matter, I believe that much of the cost increase that we've seen is being driven by embellishment, paint and markings. It's important for the manufacturers to cut costs where they can, don't you think?:)

Most of us simply don't know what "the costs" of manufacturing are. I note that many manufacturers are very keen to let us know things - such as - " the cost of metal has risen by 84% in the last 3 years" (for example) - but not so keen to tell us how many pennies that actually means to them - which would be far more illuminating! An 84% increase in £1 - is only £1.84. But what IS the cost of a few grammes of this "precious metal"???????? - and how much does it ACTUALLY cost to produce an unpainted casting? Anyone care to tell us that?

Your post also assumes that manufacturers might be keen to pass on any savings. I hope you are right - but the temptation surely might be just to make extra profit - and simply not pass on any savings that they may make at all. This happens with other products - such as costs in the petro-chemical industry.

I compare the ACTUAL cost of manufacturers to me - and spend my money accordingly. I can buy a simple one piece casting of a foot figure from one supplier I know of, for £3.30 retail. Another Company - just a few miles away - would like to sell me a similar, one piece casting for £10.50 (actual prices - though I won't embarrass the suppliers by stating who they are).

Guess which unpainted castings I usually buy!

And yes, I do agree that it is in the painting that the costs can quickly escalate - depending on the fineness of the end result/ number of colours used etc - and therefore time to complete them. ( I know this from discussing it with a well known supplier). There is also a cost in transporting to and from the painters ( some of whom are outsourced, so castings need to be taken to them, and collected again once painted). To those of us who may like to paint our own, therefore - these last painting costs simply don't exist - so the technology involved in producing unpainted figures is of greater interest.

I see other posts on the subject who say that this is not available "yet". Good word that! I remember watching the Coronation on a 12" Black and White TV set in 1953 - that cost my parents "an arm and a leg" to purchase, back in 1953. I can now buy virtually any size TV I like - in full colour - stereo sound - and even 3D - if I want - for very little of my disposable income, today.

3D printing is in its infancy - at the moment, and is probably expensive. It won't always be that way.

Until such time, I'll continue to support the manufacturers who give me value for money, and avoid the ones that I consider are not doing that. End of! - Johnnybach
 
I see other posts on the subject who say that this is not available "yet". Good word that! I remember watching the Coronation on a 12" Black and White TV set in 1953 - that cost my parents "an arm and a leg" to purchase, back in 1953. I can now buy virtually any size TV I like - in full colour - stereo sound - and even 3D - if I want - for very little of my disposable income, today.

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Good point, but you are talking about a 60 year gap. I am convinced that 3D printing will catch up considerably in the comeing
60 years, but now here I am jellously looking at the 1/30 scale models of K&C and others. Now what do I do to get some Transport
and Armour for my 75mm or 1/24 Elastolin´s? Waiting for "Saint-Never-Might-Come-Day" or -at least- try to come to terms with what is available RIGHT NOW. Personallly, I am neither overexited about what might be available "One-of-these-Days" nor do I consider 3D-printing as the Holy Grail as a means of designing all those 3D-things a collector whishes to add to his collection.

Even though considering being foolish I invested my poor abilities, much too much of my cash and a good pint of heart-blood to get things done for my colllection nobody else will cater for. Still talking about a hobby it remains a fact that if you never got dissapointed you never really tried out anything new.
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3D printing is in its infancy - at the moment, and is probably expensive. It won't always be that way.

Until such time, I'll continue to support the manufacturers who give me value for money, and avoid the ones that I consider are not doing that. End of! - Johnnybach[/QUOTE]

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Value for money? You can easily loose a hell of a lot of money if you choose the "wrong" printshop or material. Problem is that there simply is not enough data available for a beginner to judge. A lot of 3d printed models do look great on the internet but lousy once you hold them in your hands - only one way to find out.
kind regards
Wolfgang
 
I see the technology as something that would allow TS manufacturers to lower their costs. For instance, it would allow them to manipulate a prototype to get it just the way that they like before creating the master mold. It would also allow them to modify existing figures with minimal effort. That means serious cost savings. In terms of the pewter/tin/white metal end of the business, we're not to the point where metal can be extruded in a method which rivals simple castings cost-wise, not even close. Finally, should it someday be possible to create metal soldiers with some variation of the technology, the figures would still have to be painted. For that matter, I believe that much of the cost increase that we've seen is being driven by embellishment, paint and markings. It's important for the manufacturers to cut costs where they can, don't you think?:)


I agree that they cut costs....But I am sure they won't diminish at all the price increasing, even if the costs will be less.

Some years ago in France the tax on restaurants was halved by the government, but the menus price didn't decrease at all....Restaurant owners said that the other costs were growing so they couldn' t cut the menu prices. Others said that they preferred to give those extra money saved to their crew ( of course!!{sm4}).
 
More advances in 3D printing. While still early for profitable toy soldier production, I suspect, we are getting closer.

As far as the implications, well, who knows.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/new-improved-3-d-printer-makes-objects-faster-clip-n324651

Without a doubt, forseeable years down the line we would be able to "scan" and print 3D objects at home - just like "photocopying" documents now :salute::

PS: Then I would be able to scan and print (and "manufacture") an army of toy soldiers from one single master copy - which would come useful especially for parade scenes {sm4} The only thing is I have to paint them myself and being resin and light they'll topple easily on display ^&confuse
 
I was thinking for dioramas weapons,crates,walls,buildings in parts and assemble etc etc the sky would be the limit.
 
Now, this certainly looks interesting:

http://store.makerbot.com/digitizer

To tell you the truth, however, I'm not too interested in replacing Toy Soldier sculpting/casting with digitized reproductions. However, the printers might be able to make some sweet looking vehicles and other models that are more accurate in dimension and scale than what we see now. For that matter, upscaling a kit from 1/35 (or 1/32) to 1/30 would be as simple as applying a coefficient to the image and then "letting her rip." Of course, anyone who wanted to sell the resulting item would have to license their work from the fellas who hold the intellectual rights.

I saw an earlier version of the MakerBot extruder a couple of years ago on YouTube. MakerBot put up a series of instructional vidoes on how to assemble and use their printer. I found it interesting that their particular technology came from dentristry, where it was used to make dentures. While it was amazing, it was more for the promise as the technology developed, rather than the state at the time. In the videos, they made a pattern of the TARDIS, based on the Airfix kit (unintentionally raising the issue of piracy), but it was crude, and you could see the seams for each pass of the extrusion nozzle. The finish piece required some serious sanding. Of course, the original Wright Flyer looks impossible, compared even to aircraft built just a few years later.

Regarding licensing, I've had a similar thought--we'll get to a point where the printer and the materials are relatively inexpensive, and manufacturers will sell us a form, a pattern, and I can see coding the file so that it's used once and can't be reused, unless you buy a new one.

Of course, the technology may make copying even easier, perhaps, but it's pretty easy right now to make a mold from a commercial metal or plastic figure and pirate it, as our friends in Asia, Russia, Poland, Hungary and elsewhere demonstrate so well. 3D printing is a side topic in the very heated discussions on the figure-painting forums about piracy in general. At Planet Figure, for example, a number of members are sculptors who make and sell figures, and they're constantly running into pirated copies of their work.

I don't think this is the death knell for toy soldiers, though.


3 d printer = the end of toysoldier industry

Puh-leeze.

Prost!
Brad
 

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