62 years ago today (1 Viewer)

Fubar

Fubar

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Just thought I'd mention it since it hasn't come up.
I'm no writer and You all know the story.


Harold Scott
 
Yes, I almost forgot today, but the thought popped up after a while. A great moment to remember the sacrifices made to defeat Nazi Germany, and that gave us our freedom back...
 
I noticed the grave of an American WWII serviceman today in the local national cemetery who died on June 6, 1944. No way to know if he was at Normandy, but it seems likely. There are some here in Gettysburg. Also noticed that his 24th birthday had been the preceeding day June 5. Some others had died on Christmas day 1944 or very near the end of the war. Must have made it even more difficult for the families under those circumstances.
 
Thank you to the greatest generation, be you Yanks, Tommies, Scots, Aussies, Frenchies, Poles, Russians, New Zealanders, Belgians, Dutch or anyone else who fought the Nazis. I and everyone else who cherishes freedom, owes you big time on this 62nd annversarry of D-Day!
 
It's a shame but most people couldn't tell you the signifigance of this date. In the span of history, it wasn't that long ago. Also Sunday June 4th was the anniversary of Midway. It was pretty incredible that we won that battle. If not, the Japanese would've taken over Hawaii and who knows how things would have turned out.
 
If any day should be an American holiday of rememberence , it should be this day.
Ray
 
I'm with you 100% Ray. I think D-Day may be the most important single day in the last 100 years. It is a date that should never be overlooked or forgotten. The men who hit the beaches at Omaha, Utah, Gold, Juno and Sword (and I appologize for failing to specifically mention Canadians in my "thankyou list") should never be overlooked!
 
My granduncles were there. It may be remembered that it wasn't exclusively an American operation. Think of Gold, Juno and Sword too.

By the way happy birthday to Sceic2 who was born on the 7th anniversary of this magnificient day.
 
Every time I watch the opening scenes from Saving Private Ryan, inevitably the question pops into my mind of "would I have been up to the level of courage of these men?" Every one I know who has seen the film also asks that same question, The question itself is the finest tribute.
America is The Home Of The Free, Because Of The Brave.
With the greatest respect and admiration,
Ray
 
CannonFodder1971 said:
My granduncles were there. It may be remembered that it wasn't exclusively an American operation. Think of Gold, Juno and Sword too.

By the way happy birthday to Sceic2 who was born on the 7th anniversary of this magnificient day.
Click to expand...

That's interesting about your granduncles. I thought Ireland was neutral. Were they fighting on behalf of England? I even remember something about Eamon sending a sympathy note to the Germans when Hitler's death was announced. Not a proud moment. I agree 100% with your comment about it not being only an American operation and the question is not meant to dispute that point.
 
Combat said:
That's interesting about your granduncles. I thought Ireland was neutral. Were they fighting on behalf of England? I even remember something about Eamon sending a sympathy note to the Germans when Hitler's death was announced. Not a proud moment. I agree 100% with your comment about it not being only an American operation and the question is not meant to dispute that point.
Click to expand...
Ireland was indeed neutral (British troops on Irish soil would've triggered another civil war) but tens of thousands of Irishmen volunteered to fight in the British/Commonwealth forces and tens of thousands more worked in the munitions factories in Britain.
Eamon deValera had a pretty toxic relationship with Churchill though, and by the time the USA entered the war it was expected that Ireland would too, but the personal animosity between both leaders had put paid to that. (There were a few strange outcomes from the original Treaty, e.g. Ireland maintained all the lighthouses on the island of Ireland, even though part of it remained in the UK. Similarly Ireland had no merchant fleet and the withdrawal of facilities by the British gave rise to even more stubbornness on de Valera's part). Anyway, deValera maintained a "strict neutrality" that resulted in weather and other information being relayed to the Allies whilst heavy media censorship gave rise to news stories about car crashes etc which didn't mention fog as the cause. D-Day would've happened on 5th June, the same day as the fall of Rome, only that the weather stations in Mayo signalled the need for a 24 hour deferral.

Of course de Valera remained so pig-headed, particularly when a number of Irish ships were lost in the Irish sea that contained passengers largely engaged in the British war effort, he refused to enter the war under any circumstances. Near the end, in April/May 1945, upon the death of Roosevelt he expressed his condolences to the American government, and similarly upon the death of Hitler he expressed condolences to Eduard Hempel, the German ambassador. It was a typical act of de Valera, stubborn, pig-headed and wrong.

I suppose the fact that the thousands of Irishmen weren't organised into specific Irish regiments of the British army probably obscures their contribution somewhat, but that suited de Valera and Churchill.

Inescapable though, were some of the high-profile combatants, such as Bernard "Spitfire Paddy" Finucane.

Of the Victoria Crosses awarded in WWII to Irishmen you'll find that from the earliest campaigns at Dunkirk right through to Arnhem there were Irish recipients, most posthumously.

Have a look at one or two contributors here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Marcus_Ervine-Andrews

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Edward_Garland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Bernard_Jackman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Samuel_Anthony_Lord

There was of course one or two combatants from Northern Ireland too, of which it is perhaps surprising to note that northern unionists are sparse in the honours list. A Catholic from the Falls Road area of Belfast was the only recipient of the Victoria Cross from Northern Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Magennis

Of course, there were many Irishmen who joined the British and Commonwealth forces long before the declaration of hostilities. See for example Richard Kelliher, decorated when serving as an ANZAC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kelliher

What I do not approve of is the trend for various people of Irish descent, and who identified themselves as Irish, as being roped in to the Irish war dead tallies: they were nothing of the sort - they served the RAF or Royal Navy from the persepective of those with Irish blood and a family tradition of service in the UK armed services. See for example Captain Fogarty Fagan, he of "Jervis Bay" fame:

http://www.memorials.inportsmouth.co.uk/vc/fegen.htm

Overall, yes it should be remembered that Ireland was neutral. This decision ensured a functioning government and no slide back into civil war. It allowed perhaps a quarter of a million Irish people serve in wartime factories in Britain and up to 80,000 in British regiments, (from a population of just over 3 million), whilst still interning German pilots and naval personnel detected in Irish territorial waters (and discreetly releasing Allied pilots who baled out over Ireland).

Not everyone in Ireland was happy with the neutrality compromise. At the time I would probably have volunteered to fight in a British regiment myself, but I can see why many would not have done so.

There are thousands of online references for "Proud Paddys" who served, and equally there are hundreds of online discussion points which grumbled about them by so doing they were according a degree of legitimacy to the unpleasant regime in Northern Ireland and so forth, but that's a political argument rather than a historical one.
 
One of the The Greatest Generations Greatest Days. I think we can all agree on this one...Amen
 
Cannon-
Thanks for the info on Ireland. That is fascinating. I really don't know much about Irish history and from what I do know it is somewhat complicated. Wasn't Eamon born in the US and/or spend a lot of time here raising money? How is he thought of these days? We seem to be more familiar with Michael Collins in the US for reasons that are hard to understand.
 
Combat said:
Cannon-
Thanks for the info on Ireland. That is fascinating. I really don't know much about Irish history and from what I do know it is somewhat complicated. Wasn't Eamon born in the US and/or spend a lot of time here raising money? How is he thought of these days? We seem to be more familiar with Michael Collins in the US for reasons that are hard to understand.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't want to hog a D-Day thread with someone like de Valera. He was American-born, and that probably saved his life in 1916 as he was not sentenced to death with the other rebels. Of the whole Churchill -v- de Valera rumblings you can follow their sad exchanges with one another even after the war:

http://www.ambrand.com/2006/05/14/devalera-vs-churchill/

http://www.fact-index.com/e/ea/eamon_de_valera.html

de Valera's view is basically something on the lines of saying that Churchill's 2 or 3 years of standing alone against the odds does not equate to 800 years of resistance.

I think that when they were both re-elected into public office in the 1950s after spells in opposition they continued to grumble at one another.

More relevant to American interest you'd be probably surprised to know that, around this time there was a somewhat macabre postscript to the wartime involvement of Irishmen in the US forces: on the request of their families, quite a number of the fallen were exhumed and reinterred in Ireland. I think the figure was around 100 or so, but it was a grisly lack of respect by those families to the adopted country of those KIA. I'm sure that hundreds more were buried in Arlington.
 
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