A Cigarette… But No Cigar! (1 Viewer)

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

As the eagle-eyed among you noticed FDR should indeed have been smoking a cigarette and not a cigar… Actually, K&C posted the wrong photo – guilty as charged! We had already corrected this at the prelim stage but as yours truly was in the U.S. at the time of “DISPATCHES” release the wrong earlier pic was released. Apologies all round… and hope this clarifies the position.

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.​

 

[Mitch]

will the suit of FDR also be corrected and the boots of Stalin as some have mentioned that is also incorrect??
Mitch

Hi Guys,

As the eagle-eyed among you noticed FDR should indeed have been smoking a cigarette and not a cigar… Actually, K&C posted the wrong photo – guilty as charged! We had already corrected this at the prelim stage but as yours truly was in the U.S. at the time of “DISPATCHES” release the wrong earlier pic was released. Apologies all round… and hope this clarifies the position.

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.​

 

[Napoleon1er]

In another photo of the three in Tehran, Roosevelt wears the suit in the set (no cloak), Stalin has shoes (no overcoat), and Churchill is in the uniform, as opposed to the coat in the other picture. I think the K&C set is a combination of the two photos.

 

[Bayern]

Hi Guys,

As the eagle-eyed among you noticed FDR should indeed have been smoking a cigarette and not a cigar… Actually, K&C posted the wrong photo – guilty as charged! We had already corrected this at the prelim stage but as yours truly was in the U.S. at the time of “DISPATCHES” release the wrong earlier pic was released. Apologies all round… and hope this clarifies the position.

Best wishes and happy collecting!

Andy C.​

Andy or anyone at KC,

Well I see the picture on the website has been changed or I guess more correctly altered. I have attached it for review.

OK the cigar looks great back in Churchill's hand but the cigarette is another story. It looks like the cigar was just touched up white and rolled with the "Up In Smoke" zigzag paper from the album by Cheech and Chong. FDR had a normal sized cigarette in a holder.

Anyway if KC is going to correct the set prior to final production and release. Please review Mitch's post and please.....re-sculpt FDR and Churchill's faces.

No offense is intended by this post. I maybe of Bavarian and Prussian descent but I have great respect for FDR and even more for Winnie. Please do them more justice.

Ludwig



Ludwig

 

[Rob]

Am very much looking forward to this set being released, it captures a very important moment in WW2 History and I'm glad K&C have made this, just have to get the two paper sellers first and then this.^&cool

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

View attachment 96571

Andy or anyone at KC,

Well I see the picture on the website has been changed or I guess more correctly altered. I have attached it for review.

OK the cigar looks great back in Churchill's hand but the cigarette is another story. It looks like the cigar was just touched up white and rolled with the "Up In Smoke" zigzag paper from the album by Cheech and Chong. FDR had a normal sized cigarette in a holder.

Anyway if KC is going to correct the set prior to final production and release. Please review Mitch's post and please.....re-sculpt FDR and Churchill's faces.

No offense is intended by this post. I maybe of Bavarian and Prussian descent but I have great respect for FDR and even more for Winnie. Please do them more justice.

Ludwig



Ludwig

I'm on board with Ludwig's post and did get a kick out of the ZigZag papers comment. Ah, yes, I remember those days.

I also agree that the set needs to be re-sculpted and re-done. Had this been a commercial product, we'd probably be in the midst of a recall. The sculptor who did the forthcoming Lawrence set seems to have done a much better job and I would have given that person or a person of similar talent.

Andy, I don't wish to appear argumentative but this set represents an important in time in world history and I think it's important to get this right, both in terms of sculpture and historical details. I appreciate that you made this set but I think many would appreciate (including yours truly) if you could have it redone.

Regards,

Brad

 

[gk5717]

I also noticed that it appears that Stalin is wearing briefs, and as everyone knows he always wore boxers. Come on Andy get it right!
Gary

 

[Cyber Field Marshall]

I've been wanting and waiting for this important set for a long time and am very happy a manufacturer has seen fit to represent the Allied leadership to balance all the versions of the "baddies" leadership (of which there are many,many,many versions)!
To me this thread brings up the old debate of realism vs artistic license. Those that want a 3D version of historical pictures and are rivet counting are looking for correct suits, uniforms, colours, patterns, hairstyle etc etc are bound to be disappointed. K&C and Andy use a lot of artistic license to create pieces. I think this is done to make pieces more visually interesting, colourful etc.
For me the positives outweigh the negatives on this release. On the negative side I think the facial sculpts of Churchill and Roosevelt are so-so. On the positive side I think this set captures the "spirit" of Yalta and the Allied leadership very well and deserves a place in a D-Day collection. If the "rivet" issues are too great then obviously those collectors will have to take a pass on it until something better comes along. For me however this one is definitely on my buy list. ^&cool

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I've been wanting and waiting for this important set for a long time and am very happy a manufacturer has seen fit to represent the Allied leadership to balance all the versions of the "baddies" leadership (of which there are many,many,many versions)!
To me this thread brings up the old debate of realism vs artistic license. Those that want a 3D version of historical pictures and are rivet counting are looking for correct suits, uniforms, colours, patterns, hairstyle etc etc are bound to be disappointed. K&C and Andy use a lot of artistic license to create pieces. I think this is done to make pieces more visually interesting, colourful etc.
For me the positives outweigh the negatives on this release. On the negative side I think the facial sculpts of Churchill and Roosevelt are so-so. On the positive side I think this set captures the "spirit" of Yalta and the Allied leadership very well and deserves a place in a D-Day collection. If the "rivet" issues are too great then obviously those collectors will have to take a pass on it until something better comes along. For me however this one is definitely on my buy list. ^&cool

A very Canadian view which I think summarizes the issues in a very balanced way. My only critical complaint is that I don't like the faces on Churchill and Roosevelt. I like the Stalin sculpt. Although the clothing is not exactly in the photos, it is typical of what was worn. So if anyone wants a replica of the photo, this clearly is not it. As he often does, Andy has added his own artistic element to the model. Sometimes I like it - sometimes I hate it.

The paintings of earlier periods (ACW, AWI, NAPS, Quebec) were done after the fact from descriptions and influenced by politics. Sometimes a person out of favour was omitted from the painting and sometimes a person who was not there was included. A large part was filled in by the artist's imagination. Figures sculpted from those paintings - even if faithful to the painting - certainly contain errors, small ones, big ones and even some of the "big lie" size.

Terry

 

[Rob]

I've been wanting and waiting for this important set for a long time and am very happy a manufacturer has seen fit to represent the Allied leadership to balance all the versions of the "baddies" leadership (of which there are many,many,many versions)!
To me this thread brings up the old debate of realism vs artistic license. Those that want a 3D version of historical pictures and are rivet counting are looking for correct suits, uniforms, colours, patterns, hairstyle etc etc are bound to be disappointed. K&C and Andy use a lot of artistic license to create pieces. I think this is done to make pieces more visually interesting, colourful etc.
For me the positives outweigh the negatives on this release. On the negative side I think the facial sculpts of Churchill and Roosevelt are so-so. On the positive side I think this set captures the "spirit" of Yalta and the Allied leadership very well and deserves a place in a D-Day collection. If the "rivet" issues are too great then obviously those collectors will have to take a pass on it until something better comes along. For me however this one is definitely on my buy list. ^&cool

I think this an excellent post, some like it and will buy it and some are not happy with it and will not. Its very much each to their own, the good thing is that this thread is in an air of respect and no one is shouting anyone else down or insulting them for their own decision. I will also definitely be getting this set because I think it an excellent representation of the meeting, but respect all opinions and decisions stated here. I think it gives lie to the myth that anyone who says something negative about K&C gets shouted down, because I don't see it happening here.

Rob

 

[Bayern]

I'm on board with Ludwig's post and did get a kick out of the ZigZag papers comment. Ah, yes, I remember those days.

I also agree that the set needs to be re-sculpted and re-done. Had this been a commercial product, we'd probably be in the midst of a recall. The sculptor who did the forthcoming Lawrence set seems to have done a much better job and I would have given that person or a person of similar talent.

Andy, I don't wish to appear argumentative but this set represents an important in time in world history and I think it's important to get this right, both in terms of sculpture and historical details. I appreciate that you made this set but I think many would appreciate (including yours truly) if you could have it redone.

Regards,

Brad

Great Post Brad,

Yes I think if KC does a redo on the face sculpts...this set will sell considerably better.

In fact...I will go on record to say that if they do....I will buy a set too.

To commend other posts...it is great that we can all express our opinions on items and remain cordial.

As I have posted previously....I am glad this set was made for posterity.

And I must admit that I was wrong.........and this is hard.................






It was not a Zigzag paper it was actually a Big Bambu paper from the Big Bambu Company same as the album title.

Ludwig

 

[Mascleo]

View attachment 96571

re-sculpt FDR and Churchill's faces.

I personnaly think Winston figure looks pretty close to me for 1/30 scale. Yes, it is missing some of the facial detail, but it is still easily recognizable.

 

[Von Lettow Vorbeck]

View attachment 96583

I personnaly think Winston figure looks pretty close to me for 1/30 scale. Yes, it is missing some of the facial detail, but it is still easily recognizable.

I agree as well. I really like the set and am looking forward to getting one. I can see everyone's view, but I like the post about so few allied sets like this. That is true.

Thanks King & Country

Gerhard

 

[Mitch]

I just don't think it will be resculpted because a small number have said FDR and Churchill are not mirror images. I don't think it looks like FDR but, I will still want to have this set irregardless of the issues which, I don't find are big enough to not want this set.

I like accuracy and detail but, if this forum and hobby has taught me that you have to pay lip service to that if one wants certain products and, that applies equally across all manufacturers who make good stuff and some stuff thats pants. This set for me falls somewhere in between

Hopefully, nobody will be churlish enough again, to say I am saying this to currie favour as I just don't care if something is wrong then highlight it and see what happens but, the facial sculpts are not that terrible to make me not want to have this set and, build it into a dio. How many of these named figures or, historical figures really look like who they are supposed to be?? A very small number the rest are nothing whatsover like who they portray. How many have bought a Bar figure or a piper or dietrich even Monty does not look like him. I often think we are visually conned by the image we want to see than whats actually in front of us. As a big LAH collector not one of the named characters really look like who they are except Himmler goering and Hitler and even then its not spot on.

Said it in PM and on open forum the set has issues but, it will end up in my collection
Mitch

 

[Rob]

View attachment 96583

I personnaly think Winston figure looks pretty close to me for 1/30 scale. Yes, it is missing some of the facial detail, but it is still easily recognizable.

Hey mate, thats a very nice painting of the great man^&cool

Rob

 

[Sentaapua]

I've been wanting and waiting for this important set for a long time and am very happy a manufacturer has seen fit to represent the Allied leadership to balance all the versions of the "baddies" leadership (of which there are many,many,many versions)!
To me this thread brings up the old debate of realism vs artistic license. Those that want a 3D version of historical pictures and are rivet counting are looking for correct suits, uniforms, colours, patterns, hairstyle etc etc are bound to be disappointed. K&C and Andy use a lot of artistic license to create pieces. I think this is done to make pieces more visually interesting, colourful etc.
For me the positives outweigh the negatives on this release. On the negative side I think the facial sculpts of Churchill and Roosevelt are so-so. On the positive side I think this set captures the "spirit" of Yalta and the Allied leadership very well and deserves a place in a D-Day collection. If the "rivet" issues are too great then obviously those collectors will have to take a pass on it until something better comes along. For me however this one is definitely on my buy list. ^&cool

Spot on! Couldn't have said it better myself... I share exactly the same opinion, and this set will most certainly end up on one of my shelves....:wink2:

 

[Bayern]

A very Canadian view which I think summarizes the issues in a very balanced way. My only critical complaint is that I don't like the faces on Churchill and Roosevelt. I like the Stalin sculpt. Although the clothing is not exactly in the photos, it is typical of what was worn. So if anyone wants a replica of the photo, this clearly is not it. As he often does, Andy has added his own artistic element to the model. Sometimes I like it - sometimes I hate it.

The paintings of earlier periods (ACW, AWI, NAPS, Quebec) were done after the fact from descriptions and influenced by politics. Sometimes a person out of favour was omitted from the painting and sometimes a person who was not there was included. A large part was filled in by the artist's imagination. Figures sculpted from those paintings - even if faithful to the painting - certainly contain errors, small ones, big ones and even some of the "big lie" size.

Terry

Terry,

I like your summary. To me the big point is the two facial sculpts on Churchill and Roosevelt. Honestly I could really care less about the cigar, cigarette, boots or boxers. I liked the boxer brief angle by gk5717! Always room for good humor in my book.

It is true that many other figures do not look that much like the person they are portraying. However in the case of this set it is very important. I do not know if you have the Kings X John Wayne figure. The sculpt is exact. It had to be......of course ....it is John Wayne. This set commands that and more. It is one of the icons of the free world. We get the two Saints mediocre and Stalin looks perfect. Something wrong with that in my book. It has to look like them. It is not another General in uniform that blends into one of our battle dioramas whether he looks like Monty, Patton or Bradley or not.

I also do not think they will be re-sculpted as that would be too disruptive on the production cycle I would suspect. But one can only hope.

Again if they are I will buy a set.

That's my three cents.

Ludwig von Bayern

 

[jazzeum]

Again, Ludwig and I are in agreement. If the sculpt of FDR doesn't even remotely look like him, I don't see the point of purchasing the set so for me this will be a pass, unfortunately.

Brad

 

[PanzerAce1944]

To me the Stalin figure came out with the best likeness,with Churchill a close second.