A Poll Suggestion that might make sense... (1 Viewer)

[maddadicus]

With Honour Bound and NMA out of the vehicle and Armor market, much has been made of the masses wanting high priced ,museum quality ,this and that. Are $300 to $500 models ,what we collectors really looking for. Is this hobby and market, being dragged into the wants of the rich and famous, who can easily afford these pieces. With production runs ,ever dropping, there is no longer any time for Joe-Sixpack to save up, to pay for his wants...Those that can afford to pay now, control the market and that has ratcheted up the Special this and Limited that price points...An example, HB will produce a homerun WW2 German medic set, at a great price, but limit it to only 35..Why bother to make it then? Just the speculators alone, will clean out this piece in a few hours. How does that benefit the hobby, the limited budget collector or the dealers? The poll should simply offer 2 choices ..1) Do collectors want affordable ,well done vehicles and figure sets,offered in reasonable quanities for a $100 to $125 price ..or..2) Do collectors want to pay $300 to $500 for the perfect vehicle or figure sets ,available in limited quanities,( that you already know the same handful of collectors, have dibs on, the minute they are announced ) ...Michael

 

[theBaron]

I don't even want to pay that much for this stuff, that's why I don't buy a lot of the things that many of the mainstream here in the forum collect. And that's why I was elated when I first saw 21st Century Toys and Forces of Valor armor sold in WalMart and other stores, where more people who are cost-conscious shop, the masses, if you will forgive the Marxist term. I thought that reasonably-priced die cast models, with good detail, and some figures, would be a good way to encourage the next generation of collectors and modelers. Think about it-if you could buy a 1/32 scale Sherman for your son, at a low price, you wouldn't feel so bad if he took it out in the backyard and played with it. That is how the kids will really get hooked on the hobby, and on history, if they can get their hands on it.

As for my collection, well, since I cast and paint, again, I go after a different quarry from many of the other forum members, and again, I look for reasonably-priced items. Ten bucks is a decent price for a Stadden figure, or an Imrie-Risley, or Rose kit. Heck, that's why All the King's Men is so great-you get nice castings, well done, for a reasonable price.

If you've got the money to spend, of course, you may do what you want with it, that's the beauty of our society, and I don't begrudge anyone the choice of doing what he wants with his own money. But for me, having grown up in SE PA, I've learned the lessons of the thrifty Pennsylvania Dutch, waste not, want not, and frugal doesn't mean cheap, it means you look for the most bang for your buck.

Prost, beianand!
Brad

 

[Rob]

Speaking for myself i'd have to vote for No1.Whilst i loved the idea of having my own specially made Calliope,justifying £300 per tank is very hard indeed.Give me the realism and value K&C have consistently produced everytime.

Rob

 

[Combat]

I can't see many collectors shelling out $300 plus for multiple items. Maybe once in a while for something special. That may be the pattern that Britains is following - and maybe First Legion. Keep most items in the affordable range and now and again do something special. I wonder how the russian dealers are handling the current economy? I see aeroart mounted figures on ebay in the $500-600 range.

 

[fmethorst]

With Honour Bound and NMA out of the vehicle and Armor market, much has been made of the masses wanting high priced ,museum quality ,this and that. Are $300 to $500 models ,what we collectors really looking for. Is this hobby and market, being dragged into the wants of the rich and famous, who can easily afford these pieces. With production runs ,ever dropping, there is no longer any time for Joe-Sixpack to save up, to pay for his wants...Those that can afford to pay now, control the market and that has ratcheted up the Special this and Limited that price points...An example, HB will produce a homerun WW2 German medic set, at a great price, but limit it to only 35..Why bother to make it then? Just the speculators alone, will clean out this piece in a few hours. How does that benefit the hobby, the limited budget collector or the dealers? The poll should simply offer 2 choices ..1) Do collectors want affordable ,well done vehicles and figure sets,offered in reasonable quanities for a $100 to $125 price ..or..2) Do collectors want to pay $300 to $500 for the perfect vehicle or figure sets ,available in limited quanities,( that you already know the same handful of collectors, have dibs on, the minute they are announced ) ...Michael

This is an interesting question Michael.

I just ordered the HB sets HB33 and HB34 this morning. Why? Because I suddenly realized there are only 35 sets being made. While I had intended to purchase these anyway I hadn't intended to do it right this instant. I am in a financial position where I can be flexible and spontaneous but I certainly appreciate there are many who can't (I was there not too long ago). Is it fair? Not really but we have to remember this is a business for the manufacturers and their offerings are determined by the market. As you can see from the example I just described limiting the set to 35 got me off my *** and putting down the cash. In my case it was a successful business strategy.

Is there not room in the market for both reasonably priced good quality items as well as exclusive high end, high detail specialty pieces? I suppose one of the problems that arises is when the producer of the lower priced items feels compelled to compete with the high end pieces thus driving up the price of all pieces.

I don't pretend to have an answer but in an ideal world we would have options from low priced mass produced to high priced exclusive.

 

[maddadicus]

I keep hoping that the 35 number is actually 350 and was just a typo. I collect many mfg. from many periods, but I will not be blackmailed into buying a wanted piece, because of some arbitrary limited production #....that makes buying it ,a race. Takes the fun out of collecting, if you ask me...Michael

 

[lancer]

having just learned in this thread that the new HB figures are so limited, i will miss out on them. i too would rather see the affordable vehicles and figures. i cannot afford to get dragged into an investment-speculation game for a HOBBY i consider fun. i still must pay rent and eat. i do not buy retired figures if the price has gone over original retail. money is too hard to come by. i will miss HB's vehicles but i could not afford the Gold series anyway. HB's Panthers were at the top end price wise for me. please keep my hobby affordable and unlimited. - lancer

 

[nasirkasmani]

i think with the economy downturn, as with other Collectors Hobbies, this one too will have a rise in cost.

Good Ol' K&C has to, HB has to shut down their Gold Edition, and i wont be surprised if Figarti follow suit.

I will be extra more picky with my purchases from now on.

For eg, for the upcoming K&C August despatch of fantastic Waffen SS selection, my only confirmed purchase is the WS123
"Machine Gun Team Forward!" though i very much like all the releases.

I have a hunch Figarti too will release an SDK halftrack not too far in the future, and HB has already annouced they will be releasing their version of the flamethrower set. I want to compare them before deciding.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I agree with Frank that there is room in this hobby for both the affordable and the sublime. I think that the vast majority of my purchases will always involve everyday K&C affordable terrific quality figures, but in the past, I sprang for the $380 K&C museum quality wood & metal vehicles, I bought 2 versions of the magnificent Figarti Tiger at $300 a piece, and I presently buy about 4-5 of the K&C warbirds per year, and an average price of around $850 per plane. I had almost given in to ordering an Honour Bound Golden Series Sturmtiger when they pulled the plug.

I would welcome vehicles from K&C or Figarti in the price range, limited production and quality level of the Honour Bound Golden Series as elite elements in my collection. I would only be able to afford 3-4 a year, but they would be my big "center-piece" additions - I would order them for delivery at the Chicago Show and the Symposium, as well as Christmas and my birthday, and they would be what I looked forward to all year, just like the warbirds are now, and the K&C custom dioramas were when I had room to buy more.

 

[vandilay]

I,d also put my vote in for option one , But I still believe thier is a place
for more expensive pieces and ltd editions as something you maybe pick up one or twice a year [or more if you can afford it] or not at all if you cant justify it.

With so many regular items/series [from a variety of manufacturers] seeming to come out a ltd editions now though , I wonder if its counter productive
as I,ve no interest in entering a range if you are going to have to act straight away on every release.

 

[damian]

Trophy and Frontline never retired anything unless the moulds just got worn out. Once it was introduced you could always order an item. It just meant it might take 6-12 months for Len Taylor to remake it for you.
I enjoyed that.
Regards
Damian

 

[HAWKEYE]

Those Trophy Sets Are Fantastic As Well As The Old Glossy Frontline. But I Think It Is Far Easier To Produce The Same Glossy Sets Over Time Than Trying To Remake A Certtain Camo Pattern In Matte, Thus I Can See Why Things Get Retired. By The Way Does Anybody Else Wish Somebody Would Revive The Trophy Gloss Line Because There Were Sure A Lot Of Poses They Could Have Added.

 

[OzDigger]

I will go for 1 AND 2 as imo you need a mix of regular items at reasonable prices and better detailed low run specials to keep buyer interest up.

As for the old Collector v Investor discussion. I won't be buying Napoleon's Limited Edition Tent Set as I only collect WWII sets. Yes it's true that I would no doubt make some money if I bought the set to resell later. However that would seem unethical to me as I would be taking one set from the market that a true Nappy collector could be chasing.

That is my view on the situation, but I'm sure there are plenty of members that have a different view and would be able to rationalize their motives. If there is one thing that forums have taught me over the years it's that it's hard to change how other people think. Different strokes for different folks as they say

 

[OzDigger]

I disagree because you are not by definition an 'Investor' just because you buy something or even even a collection of things. For example, few people would count their cars as being investments. Most people collect things because they have a desire to do so, and any increase in the value of their collection is usually considered incidental as they don't sell most of what they collect.

 

[Capitolron]

You Know - When I started in this hobby a few years ago I remember thinking to myself $100 for a WWII WARBIRD ! Well, times have changed and so has the hobby - that same Warbird is surpassed by the wonderful Warbirds on the market today. So I guess its all on how you see prices today - because one thing is for sure - they will be higher 9 YEARS FROM NOW !

 

[maddadicus]

You Know - When I started in this hobby a few years ago I remember thinking to myself $100 for a WWII WARBIRD ! Well, times have changed and so has the hobby - that same Warbird is surpassed by the wonderful Warbirds on the market today. So I guess its all on how you see prices today - because one thing is for sure - they will be higher 9 YEARS FROM NOW !

Dear Ron, understanding that the cost for our toys have risen, it seems to me that the mfg. have accelerated or fast tracked the price point from affordable for most, to high end for a few, that can pay whatever. The market will sort it out, by rejecting the $200 - $300 tank or $150 figure set or embrace it, because a mfg can produce half or quarter an usual production run, charge double the price, halve their costs and make a greater profit for a few .This speaks to all the remaining mfg. Which business model, would most collectors choose to live with? That is the question..K/C ,in my mind, makes the best vehicles, for my preference, in bright color scheme and stowage clutter. Because of the rising prices, I am most reluctent now, to buy that can live without item and hold out for that die to want item. In the past, I would have bought both...Michael

 

[jazzeum]

Continuing on, I think it's better to have something, as Njja say, that is not worthless junk so you can sell it when the time is right. I remember having this conversation with John a year ago and sort of pooh - poohing the notion, on the theory that "hey I'm just a collector, I don't care what happens as long as I enjoy it." But I've come to the realization that he's not right. If you can turn an old piece that maybe you don't enjoy as much into money for something that you can enjoy, then we all benefit.

Another thing to keep in mind is how much stuff do we really need. As I get older and I'm closer to 60 now, the question I ask is "do I really need to keep accumulating?" I don't think so and I don't want to stick my familly with the problem of having to sell this. Also, let's remember these are inanimate objects. We shouldn't get so hung up on them to the exclusion of everything else so that it becomes an emotional gut wrenching decision. They're only things. When I sell a piece, it's out of sight, out of mind.

Thus, I'm cutting down and using pieces that don't really give me the pleasure I used to once have to replace them with something I really do. For example, I have a WS 15 Tiger. Sooner or later, it will probably make way for another Warbird or maybe, since I'm once again interested in the Civil War, serveral of the new K & C pieces.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Rutledge]

Seems to me the Toy Soldier industry is just going through a natural maturing process. As more companies come on line, each has to stake out their particular place in the market. A company cannot be afford to "be all things to all people". No different than any other business.

Consider the car industry. Early on, there werent many players. The focus was primarily on cost and efficiency -- because there also werent many customers. As Henry Ford famously said, "you could get any color as long its bkack".

As the years went by, more and more players came in. Meanwhile, the customer base expanded and fragmented. Nowadays, to serve the different segments, manufactureres produce vehicles at just about every conceivable price point.

The same basic principles are in play here. Some will pay up for the "Mercedes" of toy soldiers, others will gravitate downware. If there are enough customers at the high end, there will be plenty of companies to serve them. But no matter how many move up stream, there is always room for an efficient, high value add manufacturer. Without knowing the specifics, I would venture that Honour Bound's customized approach was perhaps a little too high end, perhaps especially in an environment where the global economy is slowing and the dollar is weak (although stronger of late).

 

[Njja]

Another thing to keep in mind is how much stuff do we really need. As I get older and I'm closer to 60 now, the question I ask is "do I really need to keep accumulating?" I don't think so and I don't want to stick my familly with the problem of having to sell this.

Brad:

You raise an interesting point! We may really love this stuff but what about

the future? Will it just be a burden on our children? A few years ago I pulled

68 boxes of trains out of my Dad's home He had taken over my train

adds when I moved south. It was a lot of work, and I am well versed on

Lionel trains. My wife just laughs when I casually explain how I plain to handle

our move back to Jersey

Us "senor" collectors (over 40) need to have a basic plan so one day in the

future the kids don't say........"What in the Hell was he thinking"

 

[jazzeum]

John,

I think it's something we should all think about. Another question (and I know manufacturers don't like to hear this) is how much is enough. You spend a lot of money to buy what you have but could the money be put to better uses and how many tanks, troops, etc. does a person really need.

For example, I probably have about 1,500 CDs. I would need a lot of time to listen to them all. I've drastically cut back in that area and sold a bunch of them.

At some point, I think we all need to think about cutting back.