Airplanes (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter nicolas
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jazzeum
Four Star General
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- Apr 23, 2005
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Nicolas,
K & C used to make wooden airplanes and they made two polystone ones. If you do a search, you'll see this has been extensively discussed. The wooden airplanes are very difficult to find and not cheap. A single engine fighter will cost you in the neighborhood of $600, a two engine fighter $900 or so and bombers are four figures. King and Country is contemplating making them again, due to the collector interest in having them again, partially due to the interest shown on this board.
I have three of them and Louis has about 60, probably more than anyone else I know. I'm sure he'll more adequately address the subject the next time he's on.
K & C used to make wooden airplanes and they made two polystone ones. If you do a search, you'll see this has been extensively discussed. The wooden airplanes are very difficult to find and not cheap. A single engine fighter will cost you in the neighborhood of $600, a two engine fighter $900 or so and bombers are four figures. King and Country is contemplating making them again, due to the collector interest in having them again, partially due to the interest shown on this board.
I have three of them and Louis has about 60, probably more than anyone else I know. I'm sure he'll more adequately address the subject the next time he's on.
Louis Badolato
Lieutenant General
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2005
- Messages
- 17,230
Nicolas,
Andy used to make beautiful hand carved mohagony aircraft in "gear down" position to be displayed with Toy Soldiers. He made at least 125 different aircraft (including 4 helicoptors), and each of the 125 aircraft might have come in as many as 2-10 different paint schemes/markings.
To compliment these aircraft, Andy made pilot and ground crew figures, RAF dispatch riders and M.P.'s, ambulances, Fuel Bowsers (Tanker trucks to fuel the planes) and even buildings like Quonset Huts and even a custom control tower.
He stopped producing these works of art in 1997, but has since been attempting to find a Chinese factory to commence production of arcraft which will compliment his WWII range of figures. These aircraft are planned to be less common types, like spotter planes and gliders, rather than the fighters and bombers being produced by companies like 21st Century. The planes will be wood, but with clear plastic windows/canopies and interior cockpit details. In addition to the pilot figure that will come with the planes, Andy indicated he intends to do sets of figures/vehicles that will permit a collector to make wonderful dioramas around each plane, of both airfield scenes (i.e. groundcrew, fuel trucks, etc) and action scenes (for example, if Andy makes a Lysander, he might do add on sets of O.S.S. personnel being dropped off on a French farmer's field, being met by French resistence freedom fighters, and chased by the Gestapo).
Andy is in the process of reviewing samples from these factories, and hopes to restart warbird production as soon as 2007. I'm sure Andy will let us know as soon as he can . . .
In the mean time, check out photos of around 40 of the old K&C warbirds, as well as a list of about 100 of them, on the Sager's Toy Soldiers Website: http://www.toysoldiersusa.com/cgi-l...=King and Country&subcategory=WOODEN WARBIRDS. Sadly, I only have about 45 of these wonderful planes (not 60 as Brad estimated), but I do have all of the related figures, vehicles, and diorama materials that go with them. Come to the N.Y. Symposium in March and see for yourself.
Andy used to make beautiful hand carved mohagony aircraft in "gear down" position to be displayed with Toy Soldiers. He made at least 125 different aircraft (including 4 helicoptors), and each of the 125 aircraft might have come in as many as 2-10 different paint schemes/markings.
To compliment these aircraft, Andy made pilot and ground crew figures, RAF dispatch riders and M.P.'s, ambulances, Fuel Bowsers (Tanker trucks to fuel the planes) and even buildings like Quonset Huts and even a custom control tower.
He stopped producing these works of art in 1997, but has since been attempting to find a Chinese factory to commence production of arcraft which will compliment his WWII range of figures. These aircraft are planned to be less common types, like spotter planes and gliders, rather than the fighters and bombers being produced by companies like 21st Century. The planes will be wood, but with clear plastic windows/canopies and interior cockpit details. In addition to the pilot figure that will come with the planes, Andy indicated he intends to do sets of figures/vehicles that will permit a collector to make wonderful dioramas around each plane, of both airfield scenes (i.e. groundcrew, fuel trucks, etc) and action scenes (for example, if Andy makes a Lysander, he might do add on sets of O.S.S. personnel being dropped off on a French farmer's field, being met by French resistence freedom fighters, and chased by the Gestapo).
Andy is in the process of reviewing samples from these factories, and hopes to restart warbird production as soon as 2007. I'm sure Andy will let us know as soon as he can . . .
In the mean time, check out photos of around 40 of the old K&C warbirds, as well as a list of about 100 of them, on the Sager's Toy Soldiers Website: http://www.toysoldiersusa.com/cgi-l...=King and Country&subcategory=WOODEN WARBIRDS. Sadly, I only have about 45 of these wonderful planes (not 60 as Brad estimated), but I do have all of the related figures, vehicles, and diorama materials that go with them. Come to the N.Y. Symposium in March and see for yourself.
Steven Chong
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,365
Dear Nicolas,
To be more precise, Andy commissioned mahogany aircraft from the Philippines. The particular factory that K&C used is gone, but the industry still exists, which is why you still see 1/32 mahogany aircraft being made and sold. However, these planes have the landing gear up. There is a big difference between the value of these newer planes and the old K&C planes. The main distinguishing characteristic for K&C airplanes is the one pointed out by Louis, all the WWII airplanes had gear down.
Dear Nicolas,
To be more precise, Andy commissioned mahogany aircraft from the Philippines. The particular factory that K&C used is gone, but the industry still exists, which is why you still see 1/32 mahogany aircraft being made and sold. However, these planes have the landing gear up. There is a big difference between the value of these newer planes and the old K&C planes. The main distinguishing characteristic for K&C airplanes is the one pointed out by Louis, all the WWII airplanes had gear down.
Stupid question but why in wood? Why aren't they produced in the same material then the tanks?
jazzeum
Four Star General
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2005
- Messages
- 38,379
Andy actually made two planes in polystone, an ME 109 and a Corsair and they didn't do very well. Polystone generally comes in a flat looking way whereas traditionally airplanes comes in a glossy looking style and they just look better that way. Andy, however, did make them in matte. As why wood, model airplanes have traditionally been made way and there's something warm and inviting about looking, holding and having a wooden airplane. I have the Corsair and I have three wooden planes and I much prefer the latter.
Louis Badolato
Lieutenant General
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2005
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- 17,230
Stupid question but why in wood? Why aren't they produced in the same material then the tanks?
Back when the planes were being produced, the tanks were also being produced in wood. They were much more detailed than the polystone tanks but also very expensive (around $360 retail). They had hinged hatches that opened and closed, super realistic tracks and bogie wheels, and were unequaled in quality until Figarti's recent Tiger Tanks. Check out Bill Sager's website for some photos of the old wood tanks, Stugs and other vehicles.
Steven Chong
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,365
The wooden airplane industry in the Philippines were already making 1/32 planes when Andy noticed them. He simply took an existing product and added his own unique touch -- landing gear down and canopies (only some planes) that could be opened.Stupid question but why in wood? Why aren't they produced in the same material then the tanks?
Louis Badolato
Lieutenant General
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2005
- Messages
- 17,230
Here's a quote from the book about the wood tanks and planes from the Philippine Factories:
"As of February, 1996, the para jeep, along with the rest of the first five highly detailed and beautifully finished wood "Normandy Fighting Vehicles", the Tiger, Stug IV, Hanomag, and Bren Gun Carrier, the two wood RAF vehicles, an Austin K2 Ambulance (in Blue, Green [rare] and desert tan [only 5 made]) and Bedford QL Fuel Bowser, appeared in both the flyer and the price lists. Also depicted in the “Achtung!” flyer, but not in any pricelists, was an American version of an updated M4A2 Sherman Tank (the only vehicle sold by K&C which never found its way into one of the three authors’ collections).
These vehicles mark the zenith of King & Country armored vehicle production. They were produced in the same factories in the Philippines which produced the Warbirds, and were hand-carved to a much higher standard than the earlier tanks, and finished with many better crafted metal detail pieces. The hatches were hollowed out deep enough to accommodate a half-figure of a tank commander, and the hatch covers (which opened and closed) were attached with tiny metal hinges. The paint was applied with airbrushes. Individual wood wheels were carved and attached, and resin tracks separately applied for added realism. The effect was stunningly realistic.
Different factories were used, which produced slightly different versions of these armored vehicles (such as Tigers with and without the front blackout lamps, with only one or no top hatches that open, or one version of the Stug IV [referred to as the ‘low belly Stug’] which is squat, lower to the ground and which has longer rear track covers than is appropriate). These factories were also highly unreliable (and according to Andy run by “cheeky devils”), often getting orders completely wrong, delaying orders for in excess of six months, and sending poorly packaged and damaged goods to K&C headquarters in Hong Kong. Accordingly, when a 1997 volcano eruption (I kid you not) shut down production in these Philippine Factories, K&C abandoned wood production of both vehicles and (shortly thereafter) aircraft, and experimented with the polystone vehicles and aircraft covered in chapter six."
"As of February, 1996, the para jeep, along with the rest of the first five highly detailed and beautifully finished wood "Normandy Fighting Vehicles", the Tiger, Stug IV, Hanomag, and Bren Gun Carrier, the two wood RAF vehicles, an Austin K2 Ambulance (in Blue, Green [rare] and desert tan [only 5 made]) and Bedford QL Fuel Bowser, appeared in both the flyer and the price lists. Also depicted in the “Achtung!” flyer, but not in any pricelists, was an American version of an updated M4A2 Sherman Tank (the only vehicle sold by K&C which never found its way into one of the three authors’ collections).
These vehicles mark the zenith of King & Country armored vehicle production. They were produced in the same factories in the Philippines which produced the Warbirds, and were hand-carved to a much higher standard than the earlier tanks, and finished with many better crafted metal detail pieces. The hatches were hollowed out deep enough to accommodate a half-figure of a tank commander, and the hatch covers (which opened and closed) were attached with tiny metal hinges. The paint was applied with airbrushes. Individual wood wheels were carved and attached, and resin tracks separately applied for added realism. The effect was stunningly realistic.
Different factories were used, which produced slightly different versions of these armored vehicles (such as Tigers with and without the front blackout lamps, with only one or no top hatches that open, or one version of the Stug IV [referred to as the ‘low belly Stug’] which is squat, lower to the ground and which has longer rear track covers than is appropriate). These factories were also highly unreliable (and according to Andy run by “cheeky devils”), often getting orders completely wrong, delaying orders for in excess of six months, and sending poorly packaged and damaged goods to K&C headquarters in Hong Kong. Accordingly, when a 1997 volcano eruption (I kid you not) shut down production in these Philippine Factories, K&C abandoned wood production of both vehicles and (shortly thereafter) aircraft, and experimented with the polystone vehicles and aircraft covered in chapter six."
Louis Badolato
Lieutenant General
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2005
- Messages
- 17,230
Here's a quote about the launch of the polystone vehicles:
"As is mentioned in Chapter 5, K&C lost its Philippine factories several months earlier due to a combination of a volcanic eruption temporarily closing said factories and Andy’s impatience with the “cheeky devils” so unreliably operating them. Andy, who had been looking around for a less expensive option for producing armored vehicles in limited numbers (die cast was not an option according to Andy, because the expense of tooling the molds requires the sale of 50,000+ vehicles to break even) than the wood Philippine models, started checking out the local market places in Hong Kong.
He found the solution in a “polystone” (pressed porcelain) producer’s stall, where among tiny reproductions of ladies shoes, Christmas ornaments and animals, there were some approximately 1:35 scale cars, including a U.S. Army Jeep. Andy contacted the producer of these vehicles, and asked if their factory could make tanks. They invited him to tour the facility, where they showed him a prototype armored vehicle they had produced, a German super-heavy “Maus” Tank. Andy was given or purchased the “Maus” and asked them to produce some other sample armored vehicles, this time in 1:30 scale to Andy’s specifications. The original “Maus” factory sample was later sold to the author through K&C dealer Tony Ciccarello of the Toy Soldier Gallery, who brought it back from Hong Kong in 1999.
When the samples arrived at K&C’s office, Andy was pleased, and gave the go-ahead on production of a run of 300 of each sample. The factory owner said, “300,000, no problem.” Andy had to explain to the factory that he meant 300, not 300,000, but they were still willing to produce the vehicle.
These vehicles were a fraction of the price of the earlier wood vehicles, and could be reliably produced in the hundreds or even thousands. Until late 2006, however, they were not even close to the quality and realism of the earlier wood, metal and resin vehicles.
Andy believed that these affordable vehicles would draw many new collectors, and take K&C to the next level. The author strenuously argued with Andy, believing that the burgeoning quality of K&C figures was expanding the collector base, and discerning collectors would not want such “pressed porcelain pieces of junk”. Needless to say, as K&C’s collector base has expanded exponentially since the advent of these extraordinarily popular vehicles (some of which sell in the secondary market for 2-3 times the retail price of the expensive wood vehicles), Andy was clearly right on all counts."
"As is mentioned in Chapter 5, K&C lost its Philippine factories several months earlier due to a combination of a volcanic eruption temporarily closing said factories and Andy’s impatience with the “cheeky devils” so unreliably operating them. Andy, who had been looking around for a less expensive option for producing armored vehicles in limited numbers (die cast was not an option according to Andy, because the expense of tooling the molds requires the sale of 50,000+ vehicles to break even) than the wood Philippine models, started checking out the local market places in Hong Kong.
He found the solution in a “polystone” (pressed porcelain) producer’s stall, where among tiny reproductions of ladies shoes, Christmas ornaments and animals, there were some approximately 1:35 scale cars, including a U.S. Army Jeep. Andy contacted the producer of these vehicles, and asked if their factory could make tanks. They invited him to tour the facility, where they showed him a prototype armored vehicle they had produced, a German super-heavy “Maus” Tank. Andy was given or purchased the “Maus” and asked them to produce some other sample armored vehicles, this time in 1:30 scale to Andy’s specifications. The original “Maus” factory sample was later sold to the author through K&C dealer Tony Ciccarello of the Toy Soldier Gallery, who brought it back from Hong Kong in 1999.
When the samples arrived at K&C’s office, Andy was pleased, and gave the go-ahead on production of a run of 300 of each sample. The factory owner said, “300,000, no problem.” Andy had to explain to the factory that he meant 300, not 300,000, but they were still willing to produce the vehicle.
These vehicles were a fraction of the price of the earlier wood vehicles, and could be reliably produced in the hundreds or even thousands. Until late 2006, however, they were not even close to the quality and realism of the earlier wood, metal and resin vehicles.
Andy believed that these affordable vehicles would draw many new collectors, and take K&C to the next level. The author strenuously argued with Andy, believing that the burgeoning quality of K&C figures was expanding the collector base, and discerning collectors would not want such “pressed porcelain pieces of junk”. Needless to say, as K&C’s collector base has expanded exponentially since the advent of these extraordinarily popular vehicles (some of which sell in the secondary market for 2-3 times the retail price of the expensive wood vehicles), Andy was clearly right on all counts."