april dispatches (1 Viewer)

Yes, except they are missing every defining element of D-Day beach equipment: black gasmask bag around the neck, gas detection arm band, assault vest, floatation belt etc. It's possible for individual guys to have dropped all that stuff but not on mass. It would be good to intermingle them with some of K&C's existing Rangers so that fact doesn't stand out as much.

Binder's point that these can also be used in Sicily is a good one: another overlooked theatre in WW2. They don't work for mainland Italy because Big Red One never fought there.

Just wondering seeing as you mentioned gas masks, were chemical weapons used in combat in WWII? Considering that mass extermination didn't seem to bother either side at the time , as evidenced by genocidally gassing civilians or mass bombardment or creation of fire storms.If the allies considered it a possibility on D-Day by issuing gas masks, did the Germans consider it as an option against mass landings?
 
Just wondering seeing as you mentioned gas masks, were chemical weapons used in combat in WWII? Considering that mass extermination didn't seem to bother either side at the time , as evidenced by genocidally gassing civilians or mass bombardment or creation of fire storms.If the allies considered it a possibility on D-Day by issuing gas masks, did the Germans consider it as an option against mass landings?

Although both sides produced it, I don't believe either side used gas in WWII. They had to be prepared, however, just in case so they often carried gas masks. One of the more disgraceful incidents, and this is from memory, is that the allies had loaded some onto a ship during the invasion of Sicily. The ship was hit by German bombers while in harbor and the gas was released killing a very large number of americans and civilians. The allies denied the ship contained any gas for many years. I remember reading about that in "Day of Battle". Interestingly Hitler never used gas even on the eastern front. The germans developed some effective chemical and gas weapons but for reasons I've never seen discussed did not use them. Some speculation that Hitler - having been gassed in WWI - had an aversion to it's use or was told that the Germans were not prepared for any mass retaliation by the allies.
 
Combat

I think you are right - I read some time ago that Hitler was scared of a return to Gas Warfare and he had been scared by the experience during WW1 - friends and comrades were victims in the Germany Army.

He did have his troops prepared for Gas attacks and always feared the French would use Gas as a last resort to fight the Germans - I will go back and try to find those accounts. It was interesting to me - because it showed a little human side of Hitler in his conduct of the War. He was still mad & a monster - but, this showed something IMHO.

Ron
 
Combat

I think you are right - I read some time ago that Hitler was scared of a return to Gas Warfare and he had been scared by the experience during WW1 - friends and comrades were victims in the Germany Army.

He did have his troops prepared for Gas attacks and always feared the French would use Gas as a last resort to fight the Germans - I will go back and try to find those accounts. It was interesting to me - because it showed a little human side of Hitler in his conduct of the War. He was still mad & a monster - but, this showed something IMHO.

Ron
If he had an aversion to gas through personal experience, that only indicates further his depravity towards the millions of innocents he did gas!
I suspect it had more to do with avoiding retatilation in kind or lack of effectiveness in real-world battlefields

found this in wilkipedia (where else:D)
In the Geneva Gas Protocol of the Third Geneva Convention, signed in 1925, the signatory nations agreed not to use poison gas in the future, stating "the use in war of asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and of all analogous liquids, materials or devices, has been justly condemned by the general opinion of the civilised world."[40]

Nevertheless, precautions were taken in World War II. In both Axis and Allied nations, children in school were taught to wear gas masks in case of gas attack. Italy did use poison gas against Ethiopia in 1935 and 1936, and Empire of Japan used gas against China in 1941. Germany developed the poison gases tabun, sarin, and soman during the war, and, infamously, used Zyklon B in Nazi extermination camps. Neither Germany nor the Allied nations used any of their war gases in combat, despite maintaining large stockpiles and occasional calls for their use,[41] possibly heeding warnings of awful retaliation.

Although all major combatants stockpiled chemical weapons during the Second World War, the only reports of its use in the conflict were the Japanese use of relatively small amounts of mustard gas and lewisite in China,[27][28] and very rare occurrences in Europe (for example some sulfur mustard bombs were dropped on Warsaw on 3 September 1939, which Germany acknowledged in 1942 but indicated that it had been accidental).[24] Mustard gas was the agent of choice, with the British stockpiling 40,719 tons, the Russians 77,400 tons, the Americans over 87,000 tons and the Germans 27,597 tons.[24]
..................
The mustard gas with which the British hoped to repel an invasion of the United Kingdom in 1940 was never needed,[29] and a fear that the Allies also had nerve agents[30] (in fact the Allies were not aware of them until the discovery of German stockpiles) prevented their deployment by Germany.
 
The Germans' retisence to use chemical weapons was more practical than moral. Remember that despite the blitzkrieg reputation, the German army relied HEAVILY on horse transport. Mass gas attacks would kill off their horses leaving a lot of artillery, supply and kitchen equipment immobilized.

Chemical weapons in WW2 were a case where "mutual assured destruction" actually worked.

Gary
 
Here is the WP summary of the little known Italian incident:

The Air Raid on Bari was an air attack on Allied forces and shipping in Bari, Italy by Nazi German bombers on December 2, 1943. In the attack, 20 German Junkers Ju 88 bombers, achieving complete surprise, bombed Allied shipping and personnel operating in support of the Allied Italian campaign, sinking 17 cargo and transport ships in Bari harbor.

One of the destroyed ships, John Harvey, was carrying a secret cargo of mustard gas. Many additional military and civilian casualties occurred because medical authorities were unaware of the presence of the gas, also additional casulalties were caused among the rescuers by contact with the contaminated skin and clothing of those more directly exposed to the gas. In total, 1,000 Allied military and merchant mariners and around the same number of Italian civilians died as a result of the attack and the harbor was put out of operation for over two months.

After the attack, Allied leaders, including Dwight Eisenhower, Franklin Roosevelt, and Winston Churchill ordered that the full story of the disaster be kept secret. The U.S. records of the attack were declassified in 1959 but the episode remained obscure until 1967. In 1986 the British government admitted to Bari raid survivors that they had been exposed to poisonous gas and amended their pension payments accordingly.
 
The Germans' retisence to use chemical weapons was more practical than moral. Remember that despite the blitzkrieg reputation, the German army relied HEAVILY on horse transport. Mass gas attacks would kill off their horses leaving a lot of artillery, supply and kitchen equipment immobilized.

Chemical weapons in WW2 were a case where "mutual assured destruction" actually worked.

Gary

Gary

I agree with that MAD statement.



Redhugh

I really don't want to get into a long argument over what Hitler thought.

Ron
 
as the Brits might say,"It could be a sticky wicket":D:D:D:D

I wonder if Hitler ever thought,' I may lose this war,but decades from now they will be demanding models of my Tanks';):D

Rob
 
I really like the American 1st Infantry Division figures. I suspect I'll get most of those. They should go great with DD075 "US Patrol Jeep"

DD075(L).jpg
 
I really like the American 1st Infantry Division figures. I suspect I'll get most of those. They should go great with DD075 "US Patrol Jeep"
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I love them too brother- these additions make that jeep more "inclusionary"- at first, it kind of just stood out there.

And yes, I fully intend on putting the Big Red One guys next to my Rangers and my one 29th guy in a diorama for Omaha/Utah- even if they are missing their pro masks, rifles, canteen cups and/or jockstraps. :p You gotta work with what you got and I love these guys.

And I look forward to you AK guys showing me some of them posed up in a Tunisia or some other desert environment getting ready to pounce on Jerry.
 
Although both sides produced it, I don't believe either side used gas in WWII. They had to be prepared, however, just in case so they often carried gas masks. One of the more disgraceful incidents, and this is from memory, is that the allies had loaded some onto a ship during the invasion of Sicily. The ship was hit by German bombers while in harbor and the gas was released killing a very large number of americans and civilians. The allies denied the ship contained any gas for many years. I remember reading about that in "Day of Battle". Interestingly Hitler never used gas even on the eastern front. The germans developed some effective chemical and gas weapons but for reasons I've never seen discussed did not use them. Some speculation that Hitler - having been gassed in WWI - had an aversion to it's use or was told that the Germans were not prepared for any mass retaliation by the allies.


What's really fascinating about this incident is that the sailors exposed to the mustine were found to have extremely low white cell counts in their blood. From this the idea came that mustine could be used to treat cancers like lymphoma.
It's one of those situations where from something really bad something really good came instead.
 

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