Baseball 2016 (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

The difference is you would blow out the arms of the remaining four. Right now, the Mets have three good starters, two of whom have elbow issues, one slightly better than ok starter and one starter (Verrett) in the ok to mediocre range. If you detract Verrett from the equation, you will kill Syndergaard's and Matz's arms. Thank you but no thank you. It's not a great idea. Young arms are like a QB. If you don't have good pitching you're not going to win. If anything, teams would prefer going to a six man rotation.

 

[lancer]

The difference is you would blow out the arms of the remaining four. Right now, the Mets have three good starters, two of whom have elbow issues, one slightly better than ok starter and one starter (Verrett) in the ok to mediocre range. If you detract Verrett from the equation, you will kill Syndergaard's and Matz's arms. Thank you but no thank you. It's not a great idea. Young arms are like a QB. If you don't have good pitching you're not going to win. If anything, teams would prefer going to a six man rotation.

Brad, I don't know where the answer lies to the current rash of arm problems but I don't think a 4 man rotation is a bad idea, in and of itself. It was the standard in baseball for decades without undo problems. I am of the opinion that the 5 man rotation came into vogue because the continued expansion thinned the good starting pitching to the point where teams started to fill out the rotations with an extra man. Instead of 4 decent starters, go to 3 with 2 as fillers. Perhaps the arm problems we are seeing are being incurred before pro ball is reached, as overuse or improper technique in lower levels goes unchecked. I don't know but I don't think making a pitcher go 5-6 innings every 4th day should be a problem, but I agree that it probably wouldn't work with the way things are being run at present. I do think you are correct though about the 6 man rotation. It seems that's where baseball is headed. I just don't think it's the answer, any more than the 5 man rotation has been. -- Al

 

[lancer]

Looks like Cubs are close to getting Chapman.

ESPN reporting this a done deal. Cubs get Chapman, NYY's get 4 players, including a top-ranked SS prospect, a pitcher and 2 minor league players. -- Al

 

[Panzer ace]

Brad, I don't know where the answer lies to the current rash of arm problems but I don't think a 4 man rotation is a bad idea, in and of itself. It was the standard in baseball for decades without undo problems. I am of the opinion that the 5 man rotation came into vogue because the continued expansion thinned the good starting pitching to the point where teams started to fill out the rotations with an extra man. Instead of 4 decent starters, go to 3 with 2 as fillers. Perhaps the arm problems we are seeing are being incurred before pro ball is reached, as overuse or improper technique in lower levels goes unchecked. I don't know but I don't think making a pitcher go 5-6 innings every 4th day should be a problem, but I agree that it probably wouldn't work with the way things are being run at present. I do think you are correct though about the 6 man rotation. It seems that's where baseball is headed. I just don't think it's the answer, any more than the 5 man rotation has been. -- Al

Al:

Great posts by both you and Brad. The arm problems and injuries are stacking up with no end in sight. It seems like every day you read/hear about another pitcher who is going on the disabled list. The only problem I have with a six man rotation is that the quality for most teams drops off at 3-4.

-Jason

 

[maddadicus]

Brad, I don't know where the answer lies to the current rash of arm problems but I don't think a 4 man rotation is a bad idea, in and of itself. It was the standard in baseball for decades without undo problems. I am of the opinion that the 5 man rotation came into vogue because the continued expansion thinned the good starting pitching to the point where teams started to fill out the rotations with an extra man. Instead of 4 decent starters, go to 3 with 2 as fillers. Perhaps the arm problems we are seeing are being incurred before pro ball is reached, as overuse or improper technique in lower levels goes unchecked. I don't know but I don't think making a pitcher go 5-6 innings every 4th day should be a problem, but I agree that it probably wouldn't work with the way things are being run at present. I do think you are correct though about the 6 man rotation. It seems that's where baseball is headed. I just don't think it's the answer, any more than the 5 man rotation has been. -- Al

Remember, CC sacrificed his arm and career, overpitching Milwaukie into the playoffs a few years back.Last of the work horses. .Never has been the same since. Michael

 

[Warrior]

Remember, CC sacrificed his arm and career, overpitching Milwaukie into the playoffs a few years back.Last of the work horses. .Never has been the same since. Michael

He was very good in 2009 when the won the WS, but your point is taken, they fried him down the stretch that year and it definitely shortened his career..............

 

[lancer]

Remember, CC sacrificed his arm and career, overpitching Milwaukie into the playoffs a few years back.Last of the work horses. .Never has been the same since. Michael

There are always the notable exceptions in any blanket discussion. CC was old school. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

CC is not the best example because in his first four years with the Yankees, he won 21, 19 (twice) and 15 games.

 

[jazzeum]

This article is a bit heavy on the math but suggests that we no longer have four man rotations because of the pitch counts. A high pitch count renders a pitcher less effective in his next start. Thus, teams opted to give their pitchers an extra day of rest although this writer's research found that they were still effective on three days rest. In other words, go figure!

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22423

 

[lancer]

Nats bullpen melted down again last night. Pimplebum gave up 3 in the bottom of the 9th to lose the game, his second blown save and loss in the last 2 games. That is 2 won games blown by the bullpen. The bullpen has given up 10 runs in their last 4 innings. Time for a change. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

They need to find someone or else they're going to have problems in October. Miller is out there but I'm not sure the Yankees are that desirous of trading him or if they are, it will be costly.

Yankees are 8-2 in their last 10 but are five games out of the WC and seven from the Division. Breaking the team down now wouldn't be popular but I do seem to recall that some years ago a team in the pennant race did that.

 

[lancer]

They need to find someone or else they're going to have problems in October. Miller is out there but I'm not sure the Yankees are that desirous of trading him or if they are, it will be costly.

Yankees are 8-2 in their last 10 but are five games out of the WC and seven from the Division. Breaking the team down now wouldn't be popular but I do seem to recall that some years ago a team in the pennant race did that.

I know Nats management does not want to do it, but they are going to have to part with one or more of those golden prospects they are hoarding in order to bolster the bullpen with a decent closer. Winning is a narrow window in pro ball and it would be foolish to cripple this season's team by holding onto prospects that MIGHT help in the future when the need is NOW. -- Al

 

[Louis Badolato]

I know Nats management does not want to do it, but they are going to have to part with one or more of those golden prospects they are hoarding in order to bolster the bullpen with a decent closer. Winning is a narrow window in pro ball and it would be foolish to cripple this season's team by holding onto prospects that MIGHT help in the future when the need is NOW. -- Al

I would love for the Yankees to throw in the towel and trade Miller (to the National preferably for their top pitching prospect), Beltran (to Texas for one or more of their prospects) and Ivan Nova (for whatever reasonable prospect they could get). The Yankees aren't going anywhere this year. With luck they could grab the last wildcard, but without a true ace (Tanaka is a good #2) they are dead in the wildcard game. They should reload with good prospects, to build a good, young, athletic lineup looking towards the big free agent class of 2018.

 

[Louis Badolato]

He was very good in 2009 when the won the WS, but your point is taken, they fried him down the stretch that year and it definitely shortened his career..............

When he opted out, I was on the record on this forum that they shouldn't resign CC for this very reason. That 2008 offseason was one of the worst mistakes the Yankees made in recent memory. They won 1 WS title as a result, but resigned A-Roid after he opted out (a ten year deal ending after next season at 25 million plus per year), overpaid for CC (plus, after he opted out we gave him an extra year, so like, A-Roid, we are stuck with him next year), overpaid for Teixiera (who has been hurt for 5 of the 8 years of the deal) and wasted millions on that other pitcher from the Blue Jays (I think we may be still paying 2/3 of his salary if he is still pitching in Pittsburg).

Add Jacoby Ellsbury and McCann to Cashman's resume, and he has about 5 of the worst free agent signings ever on his conscience.

 

[lancer]

I would love for the Yankees to throw in the towel and trade Miller (to the National preferably for their top pitching prospect), Beltran (to Texas for one or more of their prospects) and Ivan Nova (for whatever reasonable prospect they could get). The Yankees aren't going anywhere this year. With luck they could grab the last wildcard, but without a true ace (Tanaka is a good #2) they are dead in the wildcard game. They should reload with good prospects, to build a good, young, athletic lineup looking towards the big free agent class of 2018.

Hi Louis, that is an excellent idea. Giolito for Miller. Helps NY, helps the Nats, the way a trade should work. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

If I'm the Yankees, I never make that deal, at least not without more. Miller is a top flight closer, Giolito just a prospect. The Nats would need to trade more to get him, not to mention that there are probably other teams who want a closer. If Cashman made a one for one deal like that he needs a check up from the neck up.

 

[lancer]

If I'm the Yankees, I never make that deal, at least not without more. Miller is a top flight closer, Giolito just a prospect. The Nats would need to trade more to get him, not to mention that there are probably other teams who want a closer. If Cashman made a one for one deal like that he needs a check up from the neck up.

I realize it will take more to get Miller, but I'm simply pointing out that the Nats should make Giolito available for such a deal. The reluctance to do so cost the Nats a shot a Chapman. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

Isn't Giolito one of their top pitching prospects? I guess I'd think twice about trading him. Isn't there anyone in the minors they could or may have converted to a closer?

 

[lancer]

Isn't Giolito one of their top pitching prospects? I guess I'd think twice about trading him. Isn't there anyone in the minors they could or may have converted to a closer?

Giolito is their top pitching prospect. There are a couple of other good prospects who throw hard, Lopez and Glover, and one of them could be a closer but they aren't ready for that yet. We just seem to have trouble with closers (see 2012 and 2014 post seasons) staying consistent. By the way, Murphy hit the 20 Hr mark and 75 RBI mark in today's win over Cleveland. He's tearing the cover off the ball. -- Al

 

[Panzer ace]

The Giants continued their post All-Star Game hang over today with another loss to the Reds. They are now 2-11 since the break.