Battle On Snowshoes:The End? (1 Viewer)

marco55

Brigadier General
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Seeing the Langy/Durantyre figures will they be the end?I hope not as there is a need for some more wounded/dead figures.As far as combat oriented figures there is probably enough.Anybody out there (besides John and he wont tell) in the know about this?
Mark
 
Seeing the Langy/Durantyre figures will they be the end?I hope not as there is a need for some more wounded/dead figures.As far as combat oriented figures there is probably enough.Anybody out there (besides John and he wont tell) in the know about this?
Mark

Mark...I hope he does more too...I hate to see it end...

Snow Shoes has been popular...it's such of an obscure battle...nobody has ever done a FIW battle in the snow...I would like some more figures...

some dead figures of all three parties...

Rangers scalping Indians...

perhaps a Ranger posed as if tied to a tree...

more Indian figures...

everything I have read...accounts the French/Indian coalition was without Snow Shoes...and was at a disadvantage and floundered in the snow drifts...however John made all figures on both sides in show shoes.
 
Am I right in thinking that Rogers sent out scouts on ice skates across the lake. They would make interesting figures.

Regards

RAMC
 
Mark...I hope he does more too...I hate to see it end...

Snow Shoes has been popular...it's such of an obscure battle...nobody has ever done a FIW battle in the snow...I would like some more figures...

some dead figures of all three parties...

Rangers scalping Indians...

perhaps a Ranger posed as if tied to a tree...

more Indian figures...

everything I have read...accounts the French/Indian coalition was without Snow Shoes...and was at a disadvantage and floundered in the snow drifts...however John made all figures on both sides in show shoes.

Interesting point. but are the accounts right? I don't live where snow shoes are needed (It hardly ever snows over here!). But living in Northern US/Canada wouldn't snow shoes have been used by everybody just to get around in the winter? Weren't the snow shoes used by the europeans based on native versions? I find it difficult to believe that the French allied Indians wouldn't have worn them but the British allied Indians did?

Just a thought!
 
Am I right in thinking that Rogers sent out scouts on ice skates across the lake. They would make interesting figures.

Regards

RAMC

Yes the Rangers were wearing ice creepers on the lake and then when they went into the woods changed to showshoes. I have suggested that John do a figure shown removing his creepers.

ICE CREEPERS - These were tied to the shoes' instep to keep from slipping on ice. Specimens bearing both English and French markings, as well as unmarked ones, have been excavated from Revolutionary War sites.

2 18th C Examples
 

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The BOS line has gone longer than I believe John first announced. If it follows the pattern of Monongahela it will not so much end as fade away. Maybe some future collector club releases or an occasional surprise release down the road. It is one of my favorite lines as well, but the pain is lessened considerably if we get something new like Ticonderoga or Bushy Run. :)
 
Interesting point. but are the accounts right? I don't live where snow shoes are needed (It hardly ever snows over here!). But living in Northern US/Canada wouldn't snow shoes have been used by everybody just to get around in the winter? Weren't the snow shoes used by the europeans based on native versions? I find it difficult to believe that the French allied Indians wouldn't have worn them but the British allied Indians did?

Just a thought!

Pete....that does sound strange doesn't it...I have read accounts of the snow being even up to their waist in some spots...why wouldn't the French and Indians have snow shoes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_Snowshoes_(1757)

"The fight lasted several hours and ended only after sunset, when neither side could see the other. Rogers was injured twice during the battle, once to the head and once to the hand. The French reported that they were at a disadvantage, since they were without snowshoes and "floundering in snow up to their knees". Once darkness set in, Rogers and his survivors retreated six miles (10 km) to Lake George, where he sent Stark with two men to Fort William Henry for assistance. On January 23, Rogers returned to Fort William Henry with 48 able-bodied and six wounded soldiers."

Bougainville, Louis Antoine de; Hamilton, Edward P.(ed,trans) (1964). Adventures in the Wilderness. Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press. OCLC 506918.
 

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The BOS line has gone longer than I believe John first announced. If it follows the pattern of Monongahela it will not so much end as fade away. Maybe some future collector club releases or an occasional surprise release down the road. It is one of my favorite lines as well, but the pain is lessened considerably if we get something new like Ticonderoga or Bushy Run. :)



Doug....hahahahahaha

Another shameless plug for Bushy Run...:D
 
DOUG...Keep it up with small plugs for ticonderoga and bushy run it may pan out.
 
RANDY...Thanks for posting picture of ice creepers, very good information....Thanks.
 
DOUG...Keep it up with small plugs for ticonderoga and bushy run it may pan out.

Yes, we may be wearing him down. :D If John ever does it, I wonder if he will tie the lines together as has been suggested and do both - making the 42nd that could be used in either and then making add ons for each line. That would be contrary to his previous lines, but might be a slam dunk with sales.
 
Anyone notice that the JJ calendar picture for February includes Durantaye? Assuming I understand correctly.
 
Anyone notice that the JJ calendar picture for February includes Durantaye? Assuming I understand correctly.

John made him for me to use in the calendar photo. I believe he will eventually be released as part of a 2 figure French officer set.

Randy
 
John made him for me to use in the calendar photo. I believe he will eventually be released as part of a 2 figure French officer set.

Randy

Now that I am keeping my snow shoes figures it would be very nice to see Durantaye. I would hope john does do that set you mentioned Randy.
 
After the Battle:

Lieutenant Colonel Haviland ordered three companies of rangers, Stark's, Shepard's and Durkee's, to Rogers' support. They met the survivors at Sloop Island, six miles from the head of Lake George. Rogers spent the night of 14-15 March on Sloop Island, and sent again to Fort Edward for three horse-drawn sleighs to carry his remaining wounded. These arrived in the morning under the command of Lieutenant John Belscher, 27th Regt. of Foot. 15 March 1758 was described by Jabez Finch as "a Vast Cold & Tedious Day Espacially for ye Wounded Men." The defeated rangers trickled into Fort Edward in small groups from about 3 p.m. Rogers, bringing up the rear, reached the fort about 5 p.m. He had brought with him fifty-two survivors, eight badly wounded. He had lost 124 men and one more, his own orderly, died of the cold during the retreat.

Conclusion

Rogers estimated that about forty French and Indians were killed in the initial ambush and another sixty killed in the subsequent action. He estimated the enemy wounded at no less than 100. However Captain Hebecourt's report to General Montcalm listed his casualties as eight Indians killed, seventeen Indians wounded and two died of wounds, three Canadians wounded.

Fraxinus: From my readings, I tend to accept the casuality figures only as it relates to "our side". British have a more accurate count of the British casualities and the French a more accurate account of the French casualities.

As such, I would think that Roger's lost somewhere around 125 men in the encountered with 8 more seriously wounded with the French/Indians losses being about 10 killed (Indians), and 20 wounded.

Rogers got his clock cleaned!!!

Decent Link: http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/articles/snowshoe.htm
 
I have always wondered about the discrepancies in each sides rendition of Snow Shoes....

after reading White Devil and several other accounts of Snow Shoes, St. Francis and various other personal exploits......

I have concluded and am convinced...

that Robert Rogers embellished all the accounts of his exploits somewhat in his favor...

I have no proof...other than my opinion and the discrepancies of his casualties and mortalities to the French's rendition of the battles casualties...

but Robert Rogers...for being as celebrated a war hero as he is...appears to me as a "scoundrel" of the highest form...

I can't see where he ever had a clear cut victory in any of his skirmishes...except at St. Francis...where he slaughtered women and children against the direct orders of his superiors...

He earned his notorious reputation at St. Francis...mostly because the colonist were so grateful that it took revenge on the Abenakis and finally ended or considerably slowed down their raids in the future...

the colonist were scared to death of the Abenakis...

I think he was over rated as far as his reputation goes...and have never understood his popularity...

He was a counterfeiter...a drunk...arrested for treason...and died penniless...

I will agree he made numerous scouting contributions and forever changed the way battle was done in the bush...

but...

as a clear cut winner of any of his battles...I have never read anything that convinced me that he has a victory in any skirmish...

His lore is over rated dramatically in my opinion but his character is so intriguing none the less...

A hero...I don't know...he did some remarkable things...

Battle of Snow Shoes...yes...he got his butt kicked I think...

he overplayed his hand...

I kind of discredit the French accounts though...the initial ambush he set...then the subsequent chase over the panicking and bewildered Indians retreating...I really believe he would have inflicted more than 10 deaths...

that initial skirmish coupled with the following conflicts in the snow afterwards...I really believe his large group of troops would have inflicted more than 10 deaths...

I always thought he was so heralded and celebrated because the colonists looked at him as a daring ally that could fight the Indians on their own terms as opposed to the regimental leadership and poor success of the British army in the early campaigns...

I honestly believe his allowing scalping's and torture of Indians brought him great acclaim and respect to the colonist...

Rogers fought differently than the British troops and I think the colonist enjoyed his brutality somewhat...

retribution in a way...

I'm skeptical of both accounts of the stories casualties...
 
From what I've read Langy bested him in every encounter between them and other Marine officers did also.Langy was considered the best of the best.Montcalm in assessing his partisan officers said this,Mercier,ignorant foolish man,St. Luc is a braggart and pratting (whatever that means),Montigny admirable but a pillager,Ligneris,Villiers,and Lery good.Marin brave but foolish.Langy excellent.All the rest not worth mentioning.Langy even though an ensign in the colonial marines and a Canadien was put in charge of scouts even when French regular army lieutanents and captians was assigned to the scouts.
Mark
 

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