T
TomB
Guest

American army ?,,,the para smocks I saw many..many yrs ago looked uniform to me.. they were hand me downs from the Brit army.........maybe a 60 to 40 yrs ago Brit para can answer the question....just as a side note....camo dress did not appear in the Aust army until 69/70 in Vietnam (Tiger Suit) previous to that the uniforms were Khaki or Jungle Green... Desert camo uniforms came into general use much later ...cheers TomBAll of the military camo that I wore during my 20 Year stint,not once did the camo patterns match. Same colors used but different layout.
American army ?,,,the para smocks I saw many..many yrs ago looked uniform to me.. they were hand me downs from the Brit army.........maybe a 60 to 40 yrs ago Brit para can answer the question....just as a side note....camo dress did not appear in the Aust army until 69/70 in Vietnam (Tiger Suit) previous to that the uniforms were Khaki or Jungle Green... Desert camo uniforms came into general use much later ...cheers TomB
wont argue with that.....have seen para smocks..Brit...1950's.....loom made I imagine...they looked uniform to me .......did not realise the MG smocks were ..do..it...yourself......that will save K&C painters a bit of hassle...cheers TomBAs Arnhemjim said, the jacket is tan and the camo pattern is hand painted on. There would have to be some variation - it's not like the pattern was done on a loom and each jacket is identical. One feature to note on the actual jacket where 2 patterns cross, sometimes both colours are visible. See Arnhemjim's picture below.
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Terry
Ha Haaa... The Panzer Tank Corps ! ! ! !...you stunned me there for a few seconds......cheers TomBThe Panzer Tank Corps........No just kidding, U.S. Army. I know.... different camo designs between the both.
From those photos Andy put up, clearly the Canadians had the best looking camo. {sm4}
Terry
And the Brit..a plain olive drap smock......standard smock for some time...TomBFrom those photos Andy put up, clearly the Canadians had the best looking camo. {sm4}
Terry
Thank you for the info.....are these post MG ...smocks and patterns...the Brit in the Olive drab smock is probably the most common smock used for some years.....The MG cam pattern used ...(my query).....was answered in another post which stated they were hand painted ....did the Brits have factory produced cam smocks as well as the plain smocks at that stage of the war.? Paras were something new at that stage so it would be interesting to know....I do not have above quoted books so I am unable to check......thank you for your reply.....I think your idea to produce ...three different ranges is a darn good idea......TS starter sets hopefully will attract a younger and less monied mob.....thank you for troubling to reply...TomBHi Guys,
Even a cursory glance at any of the excellent photographic books put out on the subject of British Paras, their equipment and uniforms shows a fair range of colour patterns and shades of “Denison” smocks.
May I bring to your attention my two favorites…”FOR KING AND COUNTRY” by Harlan Glenn (published by Schiffer Military History) and “D-DAY PARATROOPERS” by Jean Bouchery (published by Histoire & Collections).
Different batches of material produced by different manufacturers equals varying final results.
Even when I was in the Royal Marines in the 1970’s you could see variations and differences of shade in our DPM camo.
Oh well back to the salt mines….
Best wishes,
Andy C.
Just found some early silk printed cam smocks....two different issues....no dates available......1942 was only date I could find when smocks first camed....cannot find any info on Arnham smocks... were they hand painted or printed.or a mixture of both .....it is not important but it is one of those things that come up that make you curious......one thing that was noted was that the colors faded easily......so much for the wealth of knowledge on the net...or...not having a clue where to look....probably a combination of both.......TomBView attachment 124323 A section of a splendid dio just posted of MG......a small point.....with all the fuss of the "P" extra cost for painting... will all the smocks have the same uniform cam pattern as per army issue...or will smocks have individual cam pattens as shown in picture.....a silly point maybe but for the collectors who like their TS accurate ,,,it is a point in MHO...cheers TomB
Thank you very much for that.....I did think something had to be consistent on the smock....appreciate your knowledge and time and effort that your post would have taken....thanks again...TomBHi All,
Almost all mass produced camouflage fabric was printed. Some early examples of German Waffen SS camouflage such as Plane Tree were screen printed by hand, later converting to roller printing.
This type of monochromatic and polychromatic printing system debuted as early as 1809/10 with cotton fabrics. The concept is really very simple with the design repeating with the diameter of the roller. The repeating design simply registers at the beginning and the end.
This is very easy to see on most Waffen SS camouflage patterns such as Oak Leaf, but much harder to see on U.S. Herring bone twilled printed fabrics as used on the M1942 camouflaged uniforms.
Almost all of the fabrics start as a white or natural cotton or cotton/rayon in flat woven, twilled or herring bone twilled. The printing is then from light to dark, with the darkest colors being printed last. I should note that many, but not all fabrics were water repellent (to a very limited degree).
Finished yardage us then laid out and production cutting is done with various sized parts cut, bundled and then moved to production sewing. Little if any concern is made for print matching of the various panels, pockets, flaps, cuff, collars and other parts. In some examples you may even see slight tonal variations between rolls of fabric on the same garment.
In German camouflaged clothing it is not at all unusual to see two different camouflage patterns used on the same garment. I have owned at least two different Waffen SS Zeltbahns that had two different printed patterns on the same item.
The Dennison smock in most of its various war time and post war patterns consisted of a light green base over which were printed large irregular areas of dark green and chocolate brown. The brown, being lighter was almost always overprinted by the dark green, this often gives the impression of a fourth color. Parts of the printed design resemble fine lines giving the impression of wide brush strokes, no doubt inspired from the Heeres Splitter camouflage pattern introduced on the Zeltbahn 31.
So at the end of the day the most realistic figures will not have the camouflage pattern placement match from garment to garment, but the camouflage pattern itself will be consistent in size and shape. This should help put to rest any concerns about using the newer production painting with the older as the color variations will be historically more accurate.
What is less likely to happen, although I do this on the figures I paint for my own use, is the intentional miss matching of patterning between applied items of the garment such as pockets and major panel lines of construction. To do this forces you to actually look at a historical garment and understand how it was originally put together in a factory environment... I love this stuff.
Hope this helps a bit.. and my apologies to those of you that already know this,
Ken Osen