casting in Meisterzinn molds (1 Viewer)

[JrT]

My first posting, happy to have finally found a place where i can actually post my question and hopefully share information.

I'm an active modeller: military in plastics, resin and (after having not done so in 20 years) tin casting. The latter is unfortunately a rather obscure activity as it's hard to find a lot of info on the web.

What i'm busy with is trying to cast a canon using my old Nurnberger Meisterzinn mould (aluminium alloy mold, as opposed to rubber moulds like the ones from Prince August or Zinnbrigade). For some reason it just doesn't want to work out, metal doesn't flow into the whole of the mould. Does anyone have any idea on how to improve this? Should i drill little airholes in it? Or heat the thing (and how)?

Thanks!
Jeroen

the Netherlands

 

[mensaman]

My first posting, happy to have finally found a place where i can actually post my question and hopefully share information.

I'm an active modeller: military in plastics, resin and (after having not done so in 20 years) tin casting. The latter is unfortunately a rather obscure activity as it's hard to find a lot of info on the web.

What i'm busy with is trying to cast a canon using my old Nurnberger Meisterzinn mould (aluminium alloy mold, as opposed to rubber moulds like the ones from Prince August or Zinnbrigade). For some reason it just doesn't want to work out, metal doesn't flow into the whole of the mould. Does anyone have any idea on how to improve this? Should i drill little airholes in it? Or heat the thing (and how)?

Thanks!
Jeroen

the Netherlands

Hello JrT

I have recently started to use Meisterzinn moulds and have been using rubber moulds for years, initially I had exactly the same problem but after many trials I came up with the following solution: The metal mix has to be very hot around 450°C and also the mould has to be heated to a similar temperature. I have no means of heating up moulds so I tried sitting the mould on top of the melting pot, then pouring while it retains it's heat - the first few castings do not come out well but if you persist, eventually the mould itself gets very hot and this is the key. As soon as the mould itself reaches a high enough temperature you will find that you can start to lower the temperature of the metal and they cast beautifully, the other trick is to dust the mould 'each time' with talcum powder and tap out the excess before pouring ...

I sincerely hope this helps, all the best. JP

 

[aujj65]

Many years ago I tried casting my own from a metal mould and found that heating it in the oven before casting got better results.

Jeff

 

[kogu]

A long time ago I casted some figures with Nuernberger Meisterzinn moulds.
Many of the first tries only came out partially and went right back in the melting pot.
To me it seemed that after several tries the more heated mould and a good, complete dusting with Talcum powder made it work.
Don't know which one was more important, but as of the little descriptions provided by Nuernberger Meisterzinn, the use of Talcum powder seemed to be essential.
You could buy single moulds for figures, cannons and accessories, but you could also buy some complete kits, which included several moulds, a melting pot, a little burner, and a bag of Talcum powder.
I think the combination of a good heated mould and the use of the powder will give successful results.
Konrad

 

[theBaron]

I second that. You can warm the molds ahead of time in the oven, on a low, WARMING setting, not any higher. And use lampblack, that is, hold the mold over a candle, so the soot fills the cavities. That will act as a lubricant for the molten metal to help it flow into the cavities.

Do not use the candle method with silicon rubber molds, use talcum powder.

I don't warm my molds in the oven, I just do a couple of pours, which warm the molds up, and I throw the short-shots back in the pot.

You also don't want the molds to get too hot. I find, with my metal molds, that I can do 3 or 4 pours, then the mold becomes difficult to handle, and that's even with insulated gloves. I have some pieces of terra cotta tile that I use to lay the molds on, which helps them cool down a little but keep a good warmth. My casting sessions use several molds at a time, so I can cycle through different molds, and while one set is cooling off a little, I use the next mold, then let it cool, go to the next mold, and so on.

Hope that helps, prost!
Brad

 

[JrT]

Awesome guys, JP, Jeff, Konrad and Brad: very useful tips, and very quick replies, much appreciated, gonna put your suggestions into practice this weekend!

Just a few questions based on what you’ve suggested:

- How do you heat/warm the moulds (either on a heater or in the over) without burning the plastic holds?
- Is it easy to dust a warm/hot mould with talcum? Sounds like a potentially painful experience (burning your fingers that is) & does the talcum go well with a hot mould?

And some additional questions, if I may:

- None of you have tried or needed do drill holes in meisterzinn moulds? (I’ve done that with some Prince August rubber moulds and that helped with these)
- Do you use model-metal (that is, a metal with a high percentage of tin) or ‘ordinary’ lead/tin alloys (I’ve been melting old tin/lead ‘pots’, pewter I think they’re called in English)

Thanks again & a good weekend,
Jeroen

 

[theBaron]

Jeroen, I recommend using heavy work gloves, or at least one glove on one hand, and use that as the hand to handle the hot mold. I hold a mold half in one hand, dump talc into the cavity, and then hold it upright and tap it on the work surface. A thin layer will remain on the inside of the cavity.

If I'm not mistaken, the plastic handles on the Meisterzinn molds are detachable, aren't they? I don't own any MZ molds, only Schneider molds in bronze or newer copies in a zinc alloy. Those are all made to take handles with an embedded screw, that screw into the outer side of the mold.

But even if the plastic handles aren't detachable, if you warm the halves in the oven, you should not use a high temperature. Use the lowest possible setting. We're just warming them, not heating them. The lowest setting shouldn't be enough to damage the plastic.

Regarding venting the molds, I've never cut holes or vents in any metal molds. The old bronze Schneider molds had very good tooling, with fine vents engraved, and even examples that are 100 years old give pretty good castings. The newer zinc molds (Hoehmann, in Cassel, eg) are also very nicely tooled and give good, crisp castings. I have vented my silicon rubber molds, however. My Prins August molds needed it. I usually use an X-Acto knife to cut fine slits in the material, in a direction generally vertical and back up towards the top of the mold, where the pouring gate is. That way, as the molten metal drops into the cavity, it pushes the air back up the vents.

For metal, I use old linotype metal, and scrap lead, such as fishing weights and tire weights. I won't pay for commercially prepared alloys, especially to ship it, when I can find sources close to home. I use rough estimates on the content of my casting alloy. First, I "refine" any lead that I have, by melting it down, skimming the dross off the pot, and pouring the remnant into pigs--casting pieces--using an aluminum baking tray shaped to make muffin tops, a dozen on the sheet. The indentations on the sheet are about the size of an old silver dollar (or Reichstaler). Those, I use to add to the pot.

The linotype metal, I have in bars, and in the form of old linotype. I knew a scrap dealer who used to clean out print shops, and I bought a couple bucketfuls from him. The old linotype was easy to use; I could add a couple pieces at a time to the pot as needed. The bars I had to melt down, and I make pigs of those, too, as I do with my lead.

I adjust the mixture for metal or for rubber molds. For metal molds, I use a little more lead in the mix, it seems to stay hotter longer and get to the bottom of the mold better. For my rubber molds, I use the linotype metal, which is an alloy of tin, lead and antimony or bismuth, which works better with the crisper detail that silicon rubber molds usually have. But even so, I find that my lead pigs work pretty well, despite lead's natural softness, because I've removed as much of the impurities as I can.

Hope that all helps, prost!
Brad

 

[JrT]

Awesome Brad - you are really helping me big time here, thanks ever so much.

May i ask 2 final things (and hope you don't think i'm stalking you)?

- Where do you get the mould you mention? I've never heard of Schneider or Hoehmann and really wonder what they are like, or can you only get them in the US?

- Do you have any experience using pewter (think that's the English word for old tin drink mugs and the like, is it not?)? The prince august site mentiones it's not very suitable but i cannot imagine why as it contains a high percentage of tin (90% or more) here in the Netherlands, so to my limited knowledge that should make it more suitable than alloys with a higher percentage of lead or other materials.

That's it, wont keep on bothering you!

Best regards,
Jeroen

 

[theBaron]

Hi, Jeroen, no, I don't mind at all answering your questions, I hope it helps!

First, regarding pewter...

Pewter is a generic term for an alloy of tin, lead, and antimony, bismuth and copper, in various combinations, with a tin content anywhere from 80% to 99%. The main difference between pewter as such, and contemporary casting alloys available from companies like Prins August or Nurnberger Meisterzinn is that the commercial casting alloys will probably be low on lead, or lead-free, out of concerns about exposure to lead (concerns that are misplaced, in my opinion), and also, that the content of those alloys is consistent and can guarantee, more or less, consistent results. That is, if you buy a box of old pewter pieces at a flea market, you really don't have any idea of the content of the alloy from which their cast, without having access to an assayer. And of course, they want you to buy their, as opposed to finding your own sources.

Regarding the properties of the metals that make up the alloy, too much tin, or too much tin and lead, produces a softer casting. Pure tin is malleable but also brittle, because of its crystal structure. Antimony, bismuth or copper are used to add hardness to the alloy, and their use in the alloy allows us to use molds with finer detail. Linotype metal--typeface--is a variety of pewter, using tin, lead and antimony.

Regarding the Schneider molds, they are bronze casting molds produced by the German firm of Schneider Bros. (Gebrüder Schneider) in Leipzig, from the 1890's up to 1945. They were made for hobbyists to cast at home, and were also used by some vendors, who used them to produce finished toy soldiers for sale. Schneider figures are half-round, and have a distinctive style. Schneider produced molds of a variety of subjects, including the various states of the German Empire, armies of other nations, as well as African natives and the Old West. The factory was destriyed during WWII, but after the war, there were at least two tool and die makers who revived the catalog and produced replicas of the original molds, in a zinc alloy. The name of one escapes me, but the one I remember, and from whom I bought my molds, is Höhmann, in Cassel, Germany. I have his address at home, and can post it later (as well as look up the name of the other maker). Herr Höhmann senior I think has passed away, but I think his son took up the business. His molds are of excellent quality, producing castings of the same quality as the original bronze molds. If they're still being made, I recommend them, and otherwise, if you like to visit flea markets or second-hand shops, I'd look for the original Schneider molds.

Hope that helps, prost!
Brad

 

[JrT]

Thanks Brad, very much appreciated, you're really a very big help. And i've already planned a visit to a well known big flea market in germany (I live quite close to it) and am gonna look out for those moulds!

Cheers,
Jeroen

 

[Runehammer]

Great posts ... thank you.

Two things:

(1) I have several Schneider molds that I had forgotten about, and would like to trade them for either K&C Berlin 1938 figures ... or original WW2 German memorabilia. If interested, pls email me at Runehammer at AOL dot com (no spaces and with the usual punctuation, etcetera)

(2) Didn't see it mentioned, but whenever casting, soldering or otherwise melting lead and related alloys, be sure to do it in a place that is well ventilated, preferably outdoors. The fumes can be mildly to very toxic.

 

[Obee]

Here is my latest Meisterzinn figures, its a Prussian Artillery set, but using an infantry officer mould, painted as a Gunner officer to command the gun.

Unlike the figures, the gun is a 3-D piece.



John

 

[JrT]

Here is my latest Meisterzinn figures, its a Prussian Artillery set, but using an infantry officer mould, painted as a Gunner officer to command the gun.

Unlike the figures, the gun is a 3-D piece.

View attachment 91447

John

Cool, really like it a lot! nicely done, do you also have the limber and carriage set? When i look at your pic, that is something that also immediately springs to my mind (and what i consider buying, casting and painting).

Do you have more pics like this? please share!

Jeroen

 

[JrT]

Great posts ... thank you.

Two things:

(1) I have several Schneider molds that I had forgotten about, and would like to trade them for either K&C Berlin 1938 figures ... or original WW2 German memorabilia. If interested, pls email me at Runehammer at AOL dot com (no spaces and with the usual punctuation, etcetera)

(2) Didn't see it mentioned, but whenever casting, soldering or otherwise melting lead and related alloys, be sure to do it in a place that is well ventilated, preferably outdoors. The fumes can be mildly to very toxic.

Will see if i find WW2 memorabilia in germany on some big flea market, not sure though, in germany they are not very keen on the stuff. And secondy, regarding the ventilation, what i do is melt and cast on a natural gas stove (all houses in holland use natural gas) and set the extractor hanging over it to max. is that sufficient you think?

 

[theBaron]

That ought to be sufficient ventilation, JrT, it's blowing air from your kitchen out a chimney of some kind, correct?

I used to cast in the basement, but I moved out to the garage, where I could open the door and put a workbench with my casting pot in the archway. Plus the neighborhood kids like to watch.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Obee]

Jerone,

I also have pictures of a Prussian Grenadier and an Austrian Pandour on a previous post, and in time, I'll show all of the 12 moulds I have got.

They are all cast, but take a low priority with my painting.

John

 

[kilted vampire]

I had some problems with Meisterzinn molds with the pieces sticking. Obviously I am doing something wrong when it comes to blacking out the molds. Any tiips?

 

[theBaron]

I had some problems with Meisterzinn molds with the pieces sticking. Obviously I am doing something wrong when it comes to blacking out the molds. Any tiips?

Interesting, KV. I've had that happen with molds from various manufacturers, from time to time. Even having blackened the mold, sometimes I need a needle-nose pliers to pull a casting out, or it takes the tip of a knife blade to pry the casting out gently. I've always chalked it up to minor imperfections in the mold.

As far as blackening goes, I just hold the mold over the candle, getting the soot into the cavities. I imagine we're both doing it the same way.

I don't know if that helps, particularly, except to say that it does happen.

Prost!
Brad

 

[christopher]

Hello you search semi round Moulds from schneider? the new constructor is .Zinn Bleisoldaten mathias Kretschmer Halberstatd Germany
i hope i can help you
greetings Christopher

 

[theBaron]

Hello you search semi round Moulds from schneider? the new constructor is .Zinn Bleisoldaten mathias Kretschmer Halberstatd Germany
i hope i can help you
greetings Christopher

Servus, Christoph! Ich muβ mal nach Kretschmer nachschauen, danke sehr!

Weiβt Du, ob die Firma Höhmann noch im Betrieb ist-ob vom Vater oder Sohn geführt?

Prost!
Brad