Civil War - East vs. West (1 Viewer)

Peter Reuss

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While much is made of Lee's brilliance in the eastern theater of the war, the Union steadily tore the Confederacy apart in the west. Without the western Confederacy, Lee could not stand.

It's interesting how the eastern battles garner so much attention while the Western ones fly under the radar. In looking at the ACW toy soldier lines, very few look at the west. For some reason it doesn't have the same glamor. Is it because the newspapers watched the east more closely since the war was in their backyards?

Would the war have ended sooner if Lee had been in the west holding back the Union and the western generals had been in the east? Would eastern losses have meant more for the confederacy than western ones?

Interesting thought...
 
While much is made of Lee's brilliance in the eastern theater of the war, the Union steadily tore the Confederacy apart in the west. Without the western Confederacy, Lee could not stand.

It's interesting how the eastern battles garner so much attention while the Western ones fly under the radar. In looking at the ACW toy soldier lines, very few look at the west. For some reason it doesn't have the same glamor. Is it because the newspapers watched the east more closely since the war was in their backyards?

Would the war have ended sooner if Lee had been in the west holding back the Union and the western generals had been in the east? Would eastern losses have meant more for the confederacy than western ones?

Interesting thought...

The larger reason for all the attention would primarily be the huge losses suffered by both sides. Bigger Armies , bigger casualties.The west was also less populated, and further away from civilization? Just not the same amout of coverage journalistically speaking. This does not take away from the importance of those sacrifices. One would be more aware of the names of Bedford Forrest and the Fort Pillow massacre if they had not been so far away. just my thought.
 
While much is made of Lee's brilliance in the eastern theater of the war, the Union steadily tore the Confederacy apart in the west. Without the western Confederacy, Lee could not stand.

It's interesting how the eastern battles garner so much attention while the Western ones fly under the radar. In looking at the ACW toy soldier lines, very few look at the west. For some reason it doesn't have the same glamor. Is it because the newspapers watched the east more closely since the war was in their backyards?

Would the war have ended sooner if Lee had been in the west holding back the Union and the western generals had been in the east? Would eastern losses have meant more for the confederacy than western ones?

Interesting thought...

Hi Peter,

You are quite correct, most ACW toy soldier manufacturers concentrate on the Eastern theatre. There is the occasional set that deals with Shiloh, Vicksburg, or the exploits of Nathan Bedford Forrest. I believe the Eastern theatre gets the most attention because people are naturally drawn to the dramas of the largest battles involving the greatest number of soldiers. Also, the fact that the capitols of the Union and the Confederacy were in such close geographic proximity heightens the drama. It is a shame that the Western Theatre is somewhat neglected.

However, if you really want to take note of a neglected theatre, look toward the Trans Mississippi theatre. The Trans Mississippi was the source of some extremely savage fighting with no quarter given. The Trans Mississippi is the least researched and understood of all the ACW theatres yet it contains some of the most colorful and interesting characters, villians, and heros.

As for the toy soldier makers, they will follow the lines of greatest collector interests. After all, they must sell their products. And, without a doubt, the Eastern Theatre is the area of the greatest collector interest.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat
 
The Western Theater has been the subject of many a famous artwork from such well know artists as Rocco, Reeves and Troiani. The battles were just as brutal as the Eastern ones, namely Shiloh, Stones River, Corinth, Chickamauga, Atlanta, Nashville and Franklin.

The death blow was Shermans march to the sea after the fall of Atlanta, then he turned north to seal the fate of the Confederacy............
 
While much is made of Lee's brilliance in the eastern theater of the war, the Union steadily tore the Confederacy apart in the west. Without the western Confederacy, Lee could not stand.

Would the war have ended sooner if Lee had been in the west holding back the Union and the western generals had been in the east? Would eastern losses have meant more for the confederacy than western ones?

Interesting thought...

Eons ago I wrote a paper, as part of my history degree, on this very subject and I have not read anything since that alters my thoughts of 25 plus years ago but they are just my views. As vamp has correctly mentioned the Western Confederacy was a vast area to protect/manoeuvre troops etc and Jefferson Davis who tried to micro manage everything failed by selecting appallingly bad generals. After Sidney Johnston was killed at Shiloh it was all down hill.

In late '62 Davis assigned Gen Joseph E. Johnston to command all Confederate troops between the Appalachians and the Mississippi River and to exercise control over the armies of Bragg and Pemberton. Davis intended that Johnston would order troops from one area to another depending on the Union threat. He and Davis hated each other and to make matters worse he was convinced Davis strategy to use one army to support the other could not work plus he was also convinced that Davis would humiliate him the first chance he got. So Johnston simply stopped communicating with Richmond, this in turn enfuriated Davis who then started to ignore Johnston and send orders directly to his subordinates a disastrous example of conflicting orders was Pemberton, in Mississippi had to decide whether to carry out Johnston's order to abandon Vicksburg and thereby save his army or obey Davis's orders to "Hold Vicksburg at all costs".
What a way to run a campaign!. As more and more areas of the West were lost to the invading Union army large traunches of railways were lost also making it virtually impossible to transport troops swiftly from one area to another. It did not appear on Davis's or Johnston's radar during the early stages of the war that the best way to transport troops in this area was by waterway exactly as Grant did. Johnston was no Lee and did not have his daring to take on an enemy of greater strength but also- unlike Lee- he did not have his President's support or confidence.

Gettysburg has been described as The Confederate Highwater mark, but most students of the war realise that was not the case, it was the fall of 1862 when Lee first crossed the Potomac, Braggs army was in Kentucky in an effort to impose Rebel rule and other Reb forces were pushing forward in Mississippi, but swiftly all of these efforts were stopped dead with Confederate defeats in Antietam, Perryville, Iuka and Corinth, an offensive across such a broad front was more of a high tide than Gettysburg. Gettysburg was in fact a mere splash in an ever reducing pond that was fast being emptied by the Confederate mismanagement of it's western theatre of operations. And there was nothing Lee could do to stop it, his outstanding victories in the East only achieved to keep Confederates hopes of independence alive for a few more months. The war was already lost courtesy of Johnston, Bragg, Pemberton and Beauregard all overseered by Davis who never got to grips with them or the strategy.

And if Lee and Johnston had swapped roles I believe that the pomposity of Beauregard and the incompetence of Bragg would at first had the same adverse effect on Lee's efforts who would eventually have had to replace both of them. But Who With?
Johnston would have been forced by Davis to invade the North (and twice- Never!) he would have preferred a defensive strategy which would have seen an earlier loss of Richmond than April'65 even with subordinates such as Longstreet and Jackson. Their frustration would have seen them conduct individual offensives and suffer subsequent defeats exactly as happened in the West rather than a joined up effort which was the key to Lee's success in the Old Dominion area of the war.

Subsequently with Lee in the West and Johnston in the East we would be reading of a few more Western Confederate battle victories but all indecisive, Lee could not have defeated and routed Grant and Sherman's armies. But five would get you ten that in the Eastern theatre we would be not be reading about the Gettysburg defeat in July '63 but rather the defeat and capitulation of Richmond.

Peter that's a few views you've had to your post and mine in particular is pure hypothesis, but as you posed the question you must have you're own view. I personally would be interested in what that is!

Reb.
 
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Well, Reb, I DO happen to have some thoughts :cool:

I've always wondered about Gen Joseph E. Johnston. He was a master of retiring from the field to protect his army. He consistently faced overwhelming odds and knew that it would be futile to make a stand. He just kept retreating to keep from being obliterated. In the west, he had ground to give. Was he wise...or timid?

Lee, under similar circumstances, found ways to attack and drive the Union back. Was he wise...or lucky?

I think it could be argued that in the west the Union had more aggressive leadership (esp. under Grant and Sherman), so perhaps Johnston's fears were justified. Put Lee in the west and his gambles would not have worked as well against aggressive leadership who would not as easily have quit the field as the ones in the east.

On the other hand, if Johnston had been in the east and had 'given up' Richmond, that would have been a major psychological blow to the Confederacy. Losing Knoxville was one thing. Richmond was another.

Johnston against the imbeciles that the Union threw at Lee might have been interesting. With Lee's eastern subordinates, he might have done something worthwhile.

Lee in the west with Bragg and Beauregard could have been its own disaster. Lee trusted his subordinates...and these guys would probably not have done well with Lee's loose hand.

I agree that by the time Lee lost at Gettysburg, so much of the west had been lost to render the confederacy impotent. It would have taken a major disaster in the east to offset the loss of Vicksburg. I don't think a loss at Gettysburg would have done it if Meade could have retired from the field with some order. Lee needed to annihilate Meade to give the Confederacy hope.

While I enjoy WWII, I've been into the Civil war much longer! This all makes me want to drag out the Shelby Foote trilogy for the third time! I'm no expert, but it's fun to pretend!

Thanks for keeping things rolling Reb!
 
Lee, under similar circumstances, found ways to attack and drive the Union back. Was he wise...or lucky?


Johnston against the imbeciles that the Union threw at Lee might have been interesting.

Good overall synopsis Peter and I believe we are both singing off the same hymn sheet. I have precised two seperate parts of your comments with a statement which I think not only supports your thoughts on the subject but actually links the two:-

When Johnston was told of Lee's victory at Fredericksburg he made a profound comment to one of his staff officers

"How lucky can one General get! I will never be so fortunate as Lee to have the enemy attack me when I was holding such a fine position"

And he never was that fortunate throughout his whole Confederate command!

Reb
 
When Johnston was told of Lee's victory at Fredericksburg he made a profound comment to one of his staff officers

"How lucky can one General get! I will never be so fortunate as Lee to have the enemy attack me when I was holding such a fine position"

And he never was that fortunate throughout his whole Confederate command!

Reb

Was he never that fortunate or did he never stick around long enough to find out?
 

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