Club Figures (1 Viewer)

[theBaron]

If these sets are based on a painting then the plant figure guys have nothing to complain about after all most inspiration for toy soldiers and military models comes from paintings and illustrations.
It would be a different story if there were no painting but as it there is so anyone can make a figure of it if they choose to.

I had the same thought, and I've been looking for an illustration that might have inspired the two figures. If we look at the one that Sandor linked in his post above, for example, we see no figure with this specific pose, but there is a soldier standing by himself, holding his rifle in a similar pose.

Understand, though, that copying and piracy are sensitive topics to some of the members at PlanetFigure, many of whom are sculptors and have their own lines of figures. There are frequent posts and discussions there, as various copies of their works turn up on eBay and at shows.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Napoleon1er]

I think it's best to wait for WBritain to put out a statement on the matter.

 

[Cold Steel Miniatures]

I had the same thought, and I've been looking for an illustration that might have inspired the two figures. If we look at the one that Sandor linked in his post above, for example, we see no figure with this specific pose, but there is a soldier standing by himself, holding his rifle in a similar pose.

Understand, though, that copying and piracy are sensitive topics to some of the members at PlanetFigure, many of whom are sculptors and have their own lines of figures. There are frequent posts and discussions there, as various copies of their works turn up on eBay and at shows.

Prost!
Brad

I just checked the link and there does not appear to be any soldier like the 2 figures in question. Is this the picture that its based on or is there another?if there is no other picture I can see why the planet figure guys are getting peed off.

 

[jomartvr]

Would be nice if Britain's made a statement.

 

[jazzeum]

I read the comments on the link you posted. Is the artist threatening action for copyright infringement? Unless we know WB's inspiration for the model, any discussion would be mere speculation. Knowing Ken, my personal feeling is that the inspiration came from the print.

 

[Horus]

There differences of the figures are obvious. The one on the left is a masterpiece and the one on the right looks like a cheap knock off toy.

I find that a rather rude and elitist remark in the most bad taste made without giving Ken Osen chance to state where the origin for his interpretation lay, should he chose to condescend to reply to such an incendiary remark.
Type a few pertinent words into a search engine and similar figures in Victorian era and latter sketches, paintings, prints similar subjects appear in this vein. It may be where inspiration lay for more than just one imaginative interpretation.
And rather more to the point if the other artist cited has cause to consider action I'm sure they will !

Steve

 

[katana]

The discussion at Planet Figure is more reserved than it is here and inquires into the source of inspiration for both of the figure. Victorian newspapers printed photos of very similar military figure poses; which could easily be the source of inspiration for both figures. Only Ken Osen can say where his inspiration came from. Re-watching Zulu may be an interesting exercise!

 

[Horus]

The discussion at Planet Figure is more reserved than it is here and inquires into the source of inspiration for both of the figure. Victorian newspapers printed photos of very similar military figure poses; which could easily be the source of inspiration for both figures. Only Ken Osen can say where his inspiration came from. Re-watching Zulu may be an interesting exercise!

Taking my first look at Planet figures forum, that wasn't my impression they seemed like a posse out to get a guy whatever !

I can only speak for myself of course, but I'm happy with what Ken has envisaged from promotional photos. I have paid upfront for Ken's interpretation, for a limited market release in Britains 1.30 scale, which may well be different to this similar release !
The other artist interpretations though is also superb ! For which I whole heartily congratulate them on !

Steve


Steve

 

[tryfon]

If these sets are based on a painting then the plant figure guys have nothing to complain about after all most inspiration for toy soldiers and military models comes from paintings and illustrations.
It would be a different story if there were no painting but as it there is so anyone can make a figure of it if they choose to.

I agree to a point yes perhas from photos , paintings etc sculpt, but it appears very similar and copy of Beneitos figure, just too close,

Britains has such a wide scope to create something totoally different and unique themselves then have a figure almost identical to an existing one

 

[thebritfarmer]

What I find funny is the keyboard vigilantes demanding Ken explain himself? Why does he have to?

 

[airwiggy]

What I find funny is the keyboard vigilantes demanding Ken explain himself? Why does he have to?

I like that comment, and somewhat agree.
I also think the Quality difference is massive.

 

[thanasis67]

There was a similar "debate" on September relating with some Tom Gunn toy soldiers. It seems that sometimes the people who design the figures find inspiration or they just like and want to reproduce in their ranges figures form various model figures makers. As I said I do not find this being unethical because we talk about two different areas. The toy soldiers are not model figures (despite what the makers claim; "connoisseur", "highly accurate" etc). The purpose of the model figures is to be painted as realistically as possible, anatomically correct etc and not to be touched; you don't pick them up with your fingers, that's why the placed on wooden bases. So, it is possible for Mr Osen or for any other W. Britain's designer to wanted to reproduce this nice Beneito figure as a toy soldier. Nothing wrong I believe. And before we send M Osen to the firing squad let's think how many toy soldiers Britain produced under his guidance, not to mention what would be the future of the company if Mr Osen and a few other dedicated collectors didn't took action. Check the following photos: I would like very much to paint the model figure and at the same time to add to my collection the toy soldier (or toy ripper).

 

[katana]

A good example of "copying" is Tiger I #222 done first by Figarti and than by First Legion. The details of the two figures are identical; is the FL version a copy of the Figarti version? Many photos and drawings exist of Tiger I #222 which fought at the battle of Vilars Bocage under the command of Michael Wittmann. The design of the Tiger I and also the image of #222 are public domain and thus open to reproduction by anyone in anyway IMO.

 

[theBaron]

Whether other makers have copied others' work is not the issue here.

The issue is an accusation made by some people in one forum, that Wm Britain copied another maker's figure. They offer no proof other than photos of the two figures; the two figures do have some similarities, to be sure.

There has been no comment yet from either makers, or from the sculptor of the Beneito figure. It's a serious accusation, but in a way, it's like demanding of someone whether he's stopped beating his wife. How does one respond?

In any case, as has been noted in previous posts, here and at PlanetFigure, no one will really know either way, unless someone from Britain responds.

And we can debate whether Britain should respond, must respond or not, but that's really going to be the only way to refute the accusation. Otherwise, it remains out there, little better than a slander against several reputations, commercial and personal. Unfortunately, to many people, an absence of comment suits them as an admission of the unsubstantiated accusation they have made.

 

[jomartvr]

Perhaps I missed it, however, the club figure no longer appears on Britains facebook page.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

There differences of the figures are obvious. The one on the left is a masterpiece and the one on the right looks like a cheap knock off toy.

This may be harsh judgement but it seems valid in terms of difference in the appearance. I cannot see any collector of quality accepting that these are equivalent examples. Correct me if I am wrong but the figure on the right is a club figure; it was made to be provided gratis - that means no charge. So where is the benefit? I just cannot accept, even in the prevalent irrationality of Century 21, that a Collector would get his/her hands on item 2 and believe that they had a win avoiding the cost of figure 1. Item 1 is an art work and item 2 is an overwhelmingly different product. Straight up, the comparison is between apples and oranges - though perhaps not lemons .

 

[theBaron]

Perhaps I missed it, however, the club figure no longer appears on Britains facebook page.

Yeah, it looks like the post has been taken down. The accusing comments by Planeteers had been removed before that.

 

[theBaron]

This may be harsh judgement but it seems valid in terms of difference in the appearance. I cannot see any collector of quality accepting that these are equivalent examples. Correct me if I am wrong but the figure on the right is a club figure; it was made to be provided gratis - that means no charge. So where is the benefit? I just cannot accept, even in the prevalent irrationality of Century 21, that a Collector would get his/her hands on item 2 and believe that they had a win avoiding the cost of figure 1. Item 1 is an art work and item 2 is an overwhelmingly different product. Straight up, the comparison is between apples and oranges - though perhaps not lemons .

Again, that's not really the issue, whether a collector would pick one figure over the other. The issue is that one manufacturer has been accused, very publicly, and without much reflection or forethought, of pirating the work of another.

 

[thanasis67]

Can we calm down and enjoy our toy soldiers?
Pirating means to get a particular figure and use it to make molds and sell a figure which is almost the same with the original. I have seen a few days ago on eBay pirated El Viejo Dragon and Pegasso figures. That's piracy. The particular Britain's figure has just a similar pose and it is a very nice toy soldier. In any case Britain's has made many more excellent posed and animated figures. In making one of them maybe was inspired by a Beneito model figure. So what?

 

[Fitzgibbon]

Again, that's not really the issue, whether a collector would pick one figure over the other. The issue is that one manufacturer has been accused, very publicly, and without much reflection or forethought, of pirating the work of another.

I get that, in which case the question of why Ken should respond is the valid one - answer what?