Credit where credit is due (1 Viewer)

[damian]

Dear All.
In light of the current threads highlighting all of the faults of K and C, and let me add some of these complaints may be justified, I would just like to start a thread which does give credit where it is due. K and C did invent WWII and the modern matt figure. Before K and C there was not much in the way of WWII. Frontline did great Napoleonics which I think have still to be matched both in terms of quality and in terms of depth. Britains did some great sets especially the Delhi Durbar but their limited edition bands were variable. Trophy and Imperial did exquisite colonial war stuff which has seldom been surpassed, but it was K and C that did WWII and really made it what it is today as a collectibg theme. Sure the scale may have been a bit off and the occassional camo incorrect but compared to the opposition in this field K and C were streaks ahead. Now I don't eulogize people who I generally pay a lot of money to, but I do feel that some of the recent bashing is probably a bit offside.
If you don't believe that Andy invented WWII as a collecting theme compare the Britains 1995 VE day special edition to some of the original Arnhem figures from Andy.
Regards
Damian

 

[richardschulze1944]

Huzzah!

I think the image you post speaks for itself. But just in case......yes, the K+C figures there are, to my taste, much nicer than the Britain's, and the newer K+C are much nicer than the early ones....so yes indeed, credit where it's due, they are truly lovely. I've just unpacked my latest object d'art - the Berlin tenement building - what a beauty -

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Damian, let me get this straight: are you implying K&C was really the one who "invented" the LRDG jeeps and the Tunisian Tiger? You mean all along they had the patent rights since 1995? I think they should sue Honor Bound, New Model Army and Figarti!

Furthermore, maybe they should consider legal action against Steven Spielberg and Dreamworks Pictures for their film "Saving Private Ryan" which came out in 1998 - clearly they ripped off K&C with no mention in the movie credits!!

 

[rws591]

KING AND COUNTRY!

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Of course, I know Britains was doing dynamic matte painted WW2 figures way back in 1971 - I own some with that date stamped on the bottom! Only thing is they're plastic not metal. So I guess the patent stands?

 

[damian]

Dear Conrad
I think I said invented as a collecting theme.
Well at least that is what I meant. The Britains set shown in the picture came out in 1995 as part of their commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII. The Arnhem stuff from K and C came out in 1996. The difference speaks for itself. I like those Britains figures as great pieces of retro toy soldier art but K and C were creating a new way of seeing the hobby. The ultra-realism of today which is what we are now hammering them on was started by K and C back in 1995. In some ways they are victims of their own success. If they had brought out the SL winter tiger in 1995 no-one would have said anything about its size or that of the figures. But by 2005 the whole market had changed and now it is an issue. I am just trying to give some perspective.
Regards
Damian

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I don't know - seems Britains was on the track to realism back in the '70s with their plastic figures: http://www.davescollectables.com/0000001024.html

They look almost as good as early K&C figures.

 

[rws591]

I don't know - seems Britains was on the track to realism back in the '70s with their plastic figures: http://www.davescollectables.com/0000001024.html

They look almost as good as early K&C figures.

I have some of those red berets are they worth any thing? Also those seem to be more toys than collectibles.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I'd be interested to know that too Richard - maybe some of the Britains experts could let us know. I only have two Germans and two British infantry. The fine line between toys and collectibles can be quite blurry. Look at the old Kenner Star Wars toys from the late '70s - definitely intended to be toys, but among Star Wars geeks they're the ultimate collectible. Very early Britains and other toy soldiers were also 100% toys but they command big $ today. They began life as toys but became collectibles. Now I will agree that today's K&C figures begin life as collectibles and stay that way. The shift to matte, which the Russian companies and K&C were leaders in, has perhaps cemented the visual distinction between toys and collectibles. That I guess is something to be proud of.

Anyway, K&C shouldn't need to be defended with claims to history which may or may not be entirely accurate. If clinging to past glories was all they had going for them they would have been eclipsed long ago. Instead, K&C continues to offer one of the best figure lines on the market for the money. No manufacturer should need to be defended: if their product is good enough it will stand for itself, which K&C's easily does, occassional hickups and all.

 

[Wraith]

I have some of those red berets are they worth any thing? Also those seem to be more toys than collectibles.

I'm afraid not. I think there were just too many of them produced. The figures themselves stood up to alot of abuse, but the metal bases could be fragile in the wrong hands.

The original Deetail figures tend to go for £1 - £1.50 ish per figure, a little more for some of the more unusual figures.

I really like the red berets and have got a stash of them along with the grey berets (SAS) and green berets (marines). Shame they didn't do more in these lines.

Simon

 

[redhugh]

who said you can't play with K&C

being a child of the 70's , started off with Britains plastic deetail indians , (still hold their own today imo) and acw, then it was matchbox/airfix WWII plastic soldiers (still great poses esp germans but also the commando's) , then action man with the rip cord! then WWII just seemed to disappear form the shops for years!
then I stumbled across K&C in Hong Kong begining of this year while following wife around yet another HK shopping centre, first thought it was a mirage and then halleluah! Angels singing and Trumpets blaring
If hadn't come across that shop wouldn't have a clue that K&C existed.
Easily the leader in WWII

 

[rws591]

I'm afraid not. I think there were just too many of them produced. The figures themselves stood up to alot of abuse, but the metal bases could be fragile in the wrong hands.

The original Deetail figures tend to go for £1 - £1.50 ish per figure, a little more for some of the more unusual figures.

I really like the red berets and have got a stash of them along with the grey berets (SAS) and green berets (marines). Shame they didn't do more in these lines.

Simon

I remember getting these in a small toy soldier shop in london when i was young. I think i got them out of a big keg like barrel. I got 8 in all 4 red berets, 1 grey, 1 Green, and 2 germans as well as a little sherman and a Panzer 4 then i went to lunch at a place called Blue Jay. As my Mom, Pop, Older Sisters, and Grandma ate and talked i played with my new toys. My Grandma at the end of lunch pulled out a ceremonial set of britains which are now in my book shelves. Thats all i remember of my trip from london but at least its a memory.

 

[steel wheels]

When looking at my own collection, I find that K&C figures are still in a class by themselves. I was never impressed with the William Britain WW-2 line as much. I have the William Britain Firefly, but I had to do my own detailing to make it battle worn, or their tanks look like they left the factory. I utilized the Britain 3 man tank support, but used the K&C Monty to finish it. The first diorama I ever completed was with the Britain big Red One infantry set[now retired] and the 75mm pack Howitzer set. I added a Fov enthusiast edition Normandy Sherman which actually displays much better then the Britain Shermans. So I have learned to mix and match when possible. When I compare K&C figures and tanks to Britains line, I just feel K&C are on another level. I think Honour Bound Tanks are some of the best out there, and as good as K&C, but their figures don't compare to K&C. Figarti also makes some nice realistic Stuarts/Honey's and jeeps. Even though K&C figures can be somewhat on the big side, I still think they are nicer then the competition. If you check out the figures that came along with the Limited sandbagged sherman, they are just incredible. The detail is fantastic, right down to their facial stubble. Compare K&C'S Patton, Monty, Bradley and Ike to the William Britain versions and you will see why it is no contest. Retired K&C tanks and figures fetch premium prices that I cannot afford, the same cannot be said of the William Britain line which goes for less then their issue price on e-bay. That in itself tells you that Britains need to step it up or they will be considered a second tier choice for ww-2 collectors.

 

[rws591]

When looking at my own collection, I find that K&C figures are still in a class by themselves. I was never impressed with the William Britain WW-2 line as much. I have the William Britain Firefly, but I had to do my own detailing to make it battle worn, or their tanks look like they left the factory. I utilized the Britain 3 man tank support, but used the K&C Monty to finish it. The first diorama I ever completed was with the Britain big Red One infantry set[now retired] and the 75mm pack Howitzer set. I added a Fov enthusiast edition Normandy Sherman which actually displays much better then the Britain Shermans. So I have learned to mix and match when possible. When I compare K&C figures and tanks to Britains line, I just feel K&C are on another level. I think Honour Bound Tanks are some of the best out there, and as good as K&C, but their figures don't compare to K&C. Figarti also makes some nice realistic Stuarts/Honey's and jeeps. Even though K&C figures can be somewhat on the big side, I still think they are nicer then the competition. If you check out the figures that came along with the Limited sandbagged sherman, they are just incredible. The detail is fantastic, right down to their facial stubble. Compare K&C'S Patton, Monty, Bradley and Ike to the William Britain versions and you will see why it is no contest. Retired K&C tanks and figures fetch premium prices that I cannot afford, the same cannot be said of the William Britain line which goes for less then their issue price on e-bay. That in itself tells you that Britains need to step it up or they will be considered a second tier choice for ww-2 collectors.

I think it can not be said better, post this on the scale issues page to end that argument please.

 

[Rob]

I agree with Damian here.For whatever niggles people may have with this and that,K&C for me are still way ahead of the game.Their figures are just so much more realistic than their competitors and are easily industry leaders.For me Britains figures look a little stiff whilst Andy's figures have much more human quality about them.The faces are also superb.I can appreciate some of Britains figures,i have some of their ACW,but once you've had the best you never go back!

Rob

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I don't like to generalize and say that everything this company makes is better than everything that company makes, because every manufacturer has their star lines/sets and their stinkers as well. But I would agree that the average K&C WW2 figure is certainly better rendered than the average figure from direct competitors (i.e. not glossy or connosieur figures). K&C poses are more natural and better proportioned, the face more expressive, the details more fine, the colors more authentic and vibrant, and the research slightly better. Also their choice of subject matter is always interesting. Credit where credit is definitely due. Now I would like to see them continue to increase quality control though because they have no lead there.

 

[Rob]

I don't like to generalize and say that everything this company makes is better than everything that company makes, because every manufacturer has their star lines/sets and their stinkers as well. But I would agree that the average K&C WW2 figure is certainly better rendered than the average figure from direct competitors (i.e. not glossy or connosieur figures). K&C poses are more natural and better proportioned, the face more expressive, the details more fine, the colors more authentic and vibrant, and the research slightly better. Credit where credit is definitely due. I would like to see them continue to increase quality control though because they have no lead there.

Absolutely,because quality is good for K&C and good for us.I think perhaps one of the reasons Andy has been so successful is that he is not complacement,he knows competitors are snapping at his heels.

Rob

 

[Eazy]

I'm afraid not. I think there were just too many of them produced. The figures themselves stood up to alot of abuse, but the metal bases could be fragile in the wrong hands.

The original Deetail figures tend to go for £1 - £1.50 ish per figure, a little more for some of the more unusual figures.

I really like the red berets and have got a stash of them along with the grey berets (SAS) and green berets (marines). Shame they didn't do more in these lines.

Simon

These figures were really cool and quite a step forward compared to similar Deetail figures. As you say it's a shame they didn't make any more.
Interestingly in this set there are actually 2 more differently posed figures that are incredibly rare. I think they didn't make it into general distribution but they are out there as I've seen them pop up on ebay from time to time.

 

[Wraith]

These figures were really cool and quite a step forward compared to similar Deetail figures. As you say it's a shame they didn't make any more.
Interestingly in this set there are actually 2 more differently posed figures that are incredibly rare. I think they didn't make it into general distribution but they are out there as I've seen them pop up on ebay from time to time.

That's new info to me, thanks James. I guess the quest is on. I'll have to trawl and see if I can find some pics.

 

[Eazy]

Hi Simon,

Yeah i've given this a bit of a search myself and I can find no trace or even mention of them anywhere.
I know they exist but I'd guess it's been a couple of years since I saw them and I can't even remember what the poses were or the website that featured them. I do remember them cropping up on ebay but it's going to be luck of the draw trying to find them that way.
I wonder if somebody on the Britains thread knows about them. Might be worth mentioning.
Of course I could have just hallucinated the whole thing but it make sense as Britains always issued their Deetail sets in sixes.

James