Curious about AK038 Stug III Assault Gun (1 Viewer)

[JFalk]

Does anyone have any history of the Stug III in Africa? I have only been able to find that is was in Africa and that there was a Stug platoon part of Sonderverband 288. It only had 3 Stug III's as part of it. I think they were deployed and used in the assault gun role and infantry support and could have been used in Africa as a tank destroyer but I am not sure.

Any AK fans here know anything about the DAK Stug III?

Thanks
John Falkowski

 

[PolarBear]

Hi John

According to George Bradford's Armour, Camouflage & Markings: North Africa 1940-19430 (Published by Squadron/Signal Publications in 1976--original pub date in Britain 1971 by Arms & Armour Press) the DAK had some Stug. III. Ausf. Ds in 1942/1943, He says on p.61 "Only a few of these 75mm assault guns managed to reach Africa, and this particular one ( illustrated in German grey or pea green) served with the DAK at Bir Hacheim and later at Acroma, before being captured by the British."

Hope this helps.

Randy

 

[johngambale]

YES! Herman Goring's-21st Panzer Division fought in N.Africa and used STUG III's!

 

[JFalk]

JohnGamble, I haven't been able to find any information that the 21st Panzer, previously the 5th Light (Africa) Division using Stugs. I also believe your incorrect in refering to it as the Herman Goring division.

Sonderverband 288 was part of the 90 Light Infantry Division and had 2 Stugs, a 3rd was lost in transit. Sonderverband 288 was reorganized as Panzergrenadier Regiment Afrika and did fight at Bir Haceim, supporting was Polarbear said.

I do not believe that either of the Panzer divisions had Stugs. The reason I am asking is because I am thinking of picking up AK038 and I was hoping to see that it was used in larger numbers, however my findings so far are that only 2 of them were in Africa.

Thanks for the replys,
John

 

[johngambale]

If you look in the AFRIKA KORPS book by Leonard Lanoy; it shows the 21st Panzer Division a STUG III with DAK Rider's Assaulting their objective! I don't make up stories? "Are you talkin to me"

 

[rws591]

Im not an expert on this region ,but do you really think they would only send 3?

 

[JFalk]

I'm not trying to pick fights with anyone, just trying to get some information on the Stug III. I have looked at different OOB's and have only found the ones from the special company 288.

I tried google for the book you mentioned and the author "Leonard Lanoy" and no such luck. I have found some Herman Goring divisions but none that are the 21st Panzer

Anyways, if someone could point me to their OOB and TOE for the time period of 41-43 I would appreciate it, thanks

 

[Harrytheheid]

I don't make up stories? "Are you talkin to me"

Really John? Now that's interesting.
So how come we're still waiting to see your photo's of FOB25 sitting inside the Bren Gun Carrier? And the other suggestion regarding placing FOB26 in the back?
I don't have these two figures but one out of the BBA02 set and another one from the BBA12 set are roughly the same size and in almost equivalent poses, so I tried fitting them into the BG Carrier and took a couple of snaps. Hmmm.....the results don't look too impressive do they?
Can you please advise, with photo's, how you achieved this amazing feat of miniature engineering?


Cheers
H

 

[desk11desk12]

I'm not trying to pick fights with anyone, just trying to get some information on the Stug III. I have looked at different OOB's and have only found the ones from the special company 288.

I tried google for the book you mentioned and the author "Leonard Lanoy" and no such luck. I have found some Herman Goring divisions but none that are the 21st Panzer

Anyways, if someone could point me to their OOB and TOE for the time period of 41-43 I would appreciate it, thanks

Yeah, I read the same thing somewhere sometime ago. Yes, only three. I thought it was odd too. I think I read it some Signal Publication or was it an Osprey book? I'm sorry I don't remember.

Carlos

 

[JFalk]

Thanks Carlos, I did some more searching around and could not find anything about Stugs being present other then in 288. Those Osprey and Signal books are nice aren't they

 

[Eazy]

Really John? Now that's interesting.
So how come we're still waiting to see your photo's of FOB25 sitting inside the Bren Gun Carrier? And the other suggestion regarding placing FOB26 in the back?
I don't have these two figures but one out of the BBA02 set and another one from the BBA12 set are roughly the same size and in almost equivalent poses, so I tried fitting them into the BG Carrier and took a couple of snaps. Hmmm.....the results don't look too impressive do they?
Can you please advise, with photo's, how you achieved this amazing feat of miniature engineering?


Cheers
H

LOL awesome photo Harry! It works very well I think

 

[Rob]

Yes so realistic!!!!!

Rob

 

[Rob]

Im not an expert on this region ,but do you really think they would only send 3?

Yes but one of the drivers had a hand gun and another had a big stick!!

 

[PolarBear]

Bruce Quarrie
Fallschirmpanzerdivision: "Herman Goering"
Vanguard 4 Squadron /Signal Publications 1978
originally Osprey

This book includes a discussion of the HG Division in Tunisia where they were sent around the time of Operation Torch but does not mention if they were equipped with STUG IIIs there, although the HG did use STUG IIIs during the war.

I think its safe to say that the STUG III was not abundant in the North African theater. There does not appear to be much pictorial evidence showing it there. Perhaps John Gambale could post his photo to the forum.

 

[PolarBear]

From the Chieftan models website--but no documentation:
http://www.chieftainmodels.co.uk/catalogue_africa_german.htm

The StuG III Ausf D was almost identical to the Ausf C, and was armed with the 7.5cm Kanone L/24 to fulfill its role as assault atillery, although it proved itself as an efficient tank destroyer with its advantage of low silhouette making up for the limited traverse of the main armament. Four StuG III Ds were sent to North Africa from Greece in early 1942 as Sonder Verband 288 Afrika. Fitted with tropical filters, and extra stowage for fuel, the unit was in action at Bir Hacheim, during the Gazala battles in May, then Acroma in June, and El Alamein in October 1942. Similar vehicles were also adapted for tropical use, and sent to the Balkans and Southern Russia. The model includes two crew, and an amount of stowage. design.

 

[PolarBear]

From the web:
http://www.geocities.com/firefly1002000/288.html
Special Unit 288
The Sonderverband 288 was raised on July 1st, 1941 at Potsdam (near Berlin). It was composed of units from all over Germany.
Special Unit 288 or z.b.V.288, was also known as Combat Group Menton, after its commander. It originally contained crack units from all branches of the German army: anti-tank men, Alpine troops, engineers, and eventually 3 of the new StuG.III assault guns. There was also a company of Brandenburgers, trained for special operations behind enemy lines.
These units were intended to prepare the way for the DAK as it flowed across the Nile and into the Middle East and on to India. Their most important component was a group of interpreters with their own printing presses. These men knew all the languages that would be needed, from Arabic and Persian dialects to Hindi, Urdi and Sanskrit. There was also a specialized group who had been trained to seize and rebuild the oil fields of the region.
When it became obvious that Rommel's rush to the Nile was not going to be a cake walk, the 288th minus its interpreters and technicians was sent to Africa as special reinforcements. During the Gazala Line battles the 288th saw action supporting the Italian Ariete against the French forces defending Bir Hacheim at the southern tip of the British defenses. They also participated in the El Alamein battles, and the last of their StuG.IIIs was left behind for the British to contemplate.
By October 31 the Sonderverband 288 was reorganized and renamed Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment Afrika.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

On pg. 47 of Osprey New Vanguard 19 on the early war StuG, it says: "Although only three Sturmgeschutz Ausf. D were sent to North Africa, these are well known as this particular vehicle was extensively examined and photographed after its capture by British forces". Says it was from Sonder Verband 288.

You can interpret this sentence different ways: was it only three Ausf D's sent, or three StuGs in total sent? If it was the latter, then not only were only three StuGs in all of Africa, but they were also a different model of StuG than the one K&C made. The K&C one is clearly a B model due to the presence of the sighting channel/trench carved through the superstructure. To make it a D one would have to fill this in with clay or something and then paint over it. Or even easier, just glue a row of jerry cans over top of the trench to obscure it.

 

[PolarBear]

Canadian Samurai

Your identification of the K&C Stug III as not a D model makes sense since it is esentially a repaint of the Stug being sold for the Dunkirk FOB series. Even the uniforms of the crew are repaints of the same figures.

Chris Ellis on the Stug III:
"The Ausf B model...ran to 320 examples built in the June 1940-1941 period.... Only 200 Ausf D vehicles were built and most were used on the Russian front although three Ausf D vehicles were sent to North Africa."

Since Dunkirk was fought during the month of May could it be that the Stug IIIs were Ausf A's since the Bs were not built until June? Ellis notes that the stuctural features of A and B were similar, the only difference being in mechanical features. So is the K&C model an Ausf A?
Randy

 

[Eazy]

On pg. 47 of Osprey New Vanguard 19 on the early war StuG, it says: "Although only three Sturmgeschutz Ausf. D were sent to North Africa, these are well known as this particular vehicle was extensively examined and photographed after its capture by British forces". Says it was from Sonder Verband 288.

You can interpret this sentence different ways: was it only three Ausf D's sent, or three StuGs in total sent? If it was the latter, then not only were only three StuGs in all of Africa, but they were also a different model of StuG than the one K&C made. The K&C one is clearly a B model due to the presence of the sighting channel/trench carved through the superstructure. To make it a D one would have to fill this in with clay or something and then paint over it. Or even easier, just glue a row of jerry cans over top of the trench to obscure it.

I'm with you a lot of time on accuracy (especially camouflage!) but i've got this model DAK stug III on my desk in front of me right now and it looks darn good.

 

[jazzeum]

According to Achtung Panzer, as has been indicated here, 3 Stugs, all of the D variety, were sent to North Africa. However, I haven't been able to find any evidence that any other kind were sent to North Africa. At varying times, Germany experienced difficulties getting supplies to North Africa due to the Allies' success in interdicting German and Italian shipping and, when combined with the German inability to eliminate Malta as a threat, this may have resulted in some Stugs finding a permanent home in the Mediterranean.

However, you would think that some Fs might have made it to Tunisia in late 1942 when the Germans and Italians didn't have that much trouble getting troops and tanks to Tunis.

These are the numbers produced, again according to Achtung Panzer:

Ausf A January-May 1940 30
Ausf B June 1940-May 1941 320
Ausf C May-September 1941 50
Ausf D May-September 1941 150
Ausf E September 1941-March 1942 272
Ausf F March-September 1942 359 plus 1 prototype
Ausf F/8 September-December 1942 334
Ausf G December 1942-March 1945 7720 plus 134 converted

The K & C Stug may be an A as Dunkirk took place in late May and the conquest of Western Europe was essentially complete by late May. I'm assuming (but do not know this to be the case as I've not looked into it) that the production of the Bs was for the invasion of the USSR.

At any rate, whether it's an A or B and the fact that the AK version is an A or a B doesn't matter to me a whit as I really like the model and have no problem inserting into a Desert scene, historically correct or not.