Curious about AK038 Stug III Assault Gun (2 Viewers)

[rws591]

At any rate, whether it's an A or B and the fact that the AK version is an A or a B doesn't matter to me a whit as I really like the model and have no problem inserting into a Desert scene, historically correct or not.

I agree jazz, while we should strive for historical accuracy that does not mean just because the tank might not have been in large numbers or at all in that theater or battle shouldnt take away from it. I do not think any one should not buy a product if they like just because it the crew have the wrong patches or the tank is in the wrong camo.

 

[JFalk]

Honest, I did not mean to open this big can of worms here!

If people like something, they should buy it! If however we are going to do a series of vehicles that had less then 3 serving per theater of operation I would like to nominate next (drumroll) .......Rommels armorerd command vehicle, the Mammoth or Mammute, now that would be a really nice addition for the AK series, distinct, unique and the place where Rommel found his goggles

 

[Pierre]

...while we should strive for historical accuracy... I do not think any one should not buy a product if they like just because it the crew have the wrong patches or the tank is in the wrong camo.

I do not think that CS made such a proposition in that thread or in any other one.

You like the model, you buy it. After all, it's your money.

For me, accurary is important, if not essential and I really appreciate the informations I can have here and in any other forum, from CS or any other member.

Pierre.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

This latest info about the A/B production dates cements my opinion that rather than Dunkirk, the gray K&C FOB StuG in fact depicts one involved in Operation Barbarossa Eastern Front 1941. Before, I was basing this assertion on the skull unit emblem painted on the side (signifying Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 192, which I think first saw action on the Eastern Front not the Western Blitz).

Also, I'm sure you guys will be absolutely ecstatic to learn that radios were installed in StuG Ds, so if you can manage to convert your DAK StuG B to the D version, it will now be accurate for both crew members to have earphones! I know, please try to contain your excitement.

I'm with you a lot of time on accuracy (especially camouflage!) but i've got this model DAK stug III on my desk in front of me right now and it looks darn good.

When it comes to appearance, I too think the DAK version looks good, very good. But this discussion was about accuracy. Like you Eazy, I am in fact generally much more of a stickler about accuracy in uniforms then in armor/vehicles. However, in order to put a couple of books on the short-barrelled StuG to good use which I got for my birthday, I added a post to this thread to provide a quotation which Randy seemed to be looking for.

Entirely accurate or not, no other manufacturer in this hobby is likely going to make a short-barrelled StuG for a while, so as Pierre so eloquently put it: if you like it, buy it! A StuG in the hand is worth two in the Bush. Hopefully in the future K&C will continue to refine their research on these models.

 

[redhugh]

Dunno if this is of any use , but seems there was more than 3. The Italiens also had their own version of the stug which may account for more frequent sightings!!

Army Sturmgeschütz Units

Sturmgeschütz-Batterie 90

Nov 42 formed from 1./Sturmgeschütz-Abt. 242 and sent to Africa
[Klages: equipped with six StuG III F/8, lost 2 StuGs during transit from Sicily to Tunis
Variously attached to 90th Light Afrika Division, Parachute Regiment Barenthin and Parachute Brigade Ramcke
May 43 destroyed in Tunisia.

Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 242
Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 242 (14 Feb 44)

13 Nov 42 formed at Jüterbog (WK III) with three batteries for tropical duties
31 Dec 42 converted for service on Russian Front, less 1./242, detached to Army Group Africa as Sturmgeschütz-Batterie 90 (destroyed May 1943)
Feb 1943 transferred to Jüterbog for refitting
12 Mar 43 reformed for tropical duties
May 1943 transferred to Italy
[Niehorster: 4 Jul 43, OB Süd reserve with 22 StuG III and 9 StuH 42 on-hand]
27-30 Oct 43 strength of 20 vehicles
2 Nov 43 strength of 25 vehicles
4-6 Nov 43 27 vehicles on-hand
7-9 Nov 43 26 vehicles on-hand
10-15 Nov 43 29 StuGs on-hand
2 Feb 45 I Parachute Corps, 10th Army, Army Group Ligurien
[Nafziger: LXXVI Corps, 10th Army (29 StuG and 12 StuH), 3/45]
E 300 (Neiße, WK VIII)
SE: Dec I 42; Feb I 44, withdraw 1x 3-2-10 Aslt Gun X 242;
SF: Mar I 44, for South

Sturmgeschütz-Batterie 287

15 Aug 42 formed by redesignation of Sturmgeschütz-Batterie 659 equipped with tropical equipment for service in North Africa with Sonderverband 287
14 Oct 42 entered combat in the Caucasus (1st Panzer Army)
after 20 Dec 42: returned to Dennewitz (WK III) for refitting
? 43 transferred to Rhodes
22 May 43: redesignated 1./Pz.Abt. Rhodos
[Spielberger: served in North Africa through 10/42, transferred to Russia 10/42 and then later became 1./Pz.Abt. Rhodos.]

Independent Sturmgeschütz Units of the Wehrmacht

The assault gun (the best translation of Sturmgeschütz) units of the Wehrmacht were, contrary to popular opinion, manned by men of, and controlled by, the artillery branch, not the tank branch. This is not to say that StuGs weren't used by the panzerwaffe (tank force), as they were in Panzer-Sturmgeschütz units, usually assigned to the pnzergrenadier divisions, but that all of the actual Sturmgeschütz units were controlled by the artillery. This had a number of effects on their structure and employment.

Initially their batteries had only six vehicles, roughly comparable in manpower to an artillery battery. In comparison panzer companies had up to 22 tanks. By war's end the battery had increased in size to 14 StuGs and the panzer company had decreased to around the same number, depending on the unit.

 

[redhugh]

Just watched

Desert Victory (1943) An academy award winning (wonder how many german documentary's were in contention ) british documentary that traces the desert war from el alemein to tripoli.

And I spotted one of the knocked out infamous desert stugs towards the end of the 60 min documentary.

Its part of a 30 documentary set called WWII-The ultimate collection.Has documentary films by frank capra, john houston, john ford and william wyler. Some great actual footage it in. Was released in 2004 by BCI. Found it in a bargin bin at Borders!

 

[Louis Badolato]

Well gentlemen, I must say I am impressed. I learn more about military history on this forum then I ever did in school. Redhugh, where did you get all of that incredibly detailled information?

 

[Rob]

Well gentlemen, I must say I am impressed. I learn more about military history on this forum then I ever did in school. Redhugh, where did you get all of that incredibly detailled information?

Ditto that.The amount of infomation people put on here is incredible,i learn stuff all the time.For me working at the museum i pick up all sorts of nuggets here and its most useful.Thanks Guys,keep it coming!

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Double ditto that. Regardless of whether we completely agree on how you can use items that may not be historically correct or the degree of concern about such items, the level of knowledge and the amount of work and research put in is impressive and as I found out in a former life when I was going to be a history professor (but the profession decided it could live without me ), doing the research can be a very stimulating and rewarding experience.

 

[redhugh]

Well gentlemen, I must say I am impressed. I learn more about military history on this forum then I ever did in school. Redhugh, where did you get all of that incredibly detailled information?

There is an excellent forum called Deutsches Afrika-Korps Forum and various other axis forums which appear to have referenced their materials.

I also came across a reference to the Heman Goring Division that John Gamble was referring to

The 10. Panzer Division by Jean Restayn and N. Moller ISBN 092921991762

Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 242

selbstädige Sturmgeschütz- Batterie "Afrika" (separate "African" assault gun battery) and also called Sturmgeschütz Batterie 90

Little known unit which should be considered "Elite"... Only one battery of this battalion was delivered to NA... the other elements were sent to Russia...

This unit had the Sturmgeschütz Ausführung F-8 as confirmed by veterans and was attached as a part of the 10.PD in late 1942 for operations in Tunisia... it appears the tanks arrived in late February and early March of 1943. Along with the Sturmgeschütz Ausführung F-8's of the Herman Goering Division which arrived in April of 1943...


another reference to the herman goring group

Oberst Josef Schmid led a 'Kampfgruppe Schmid' of 'Korpsgruppe Weber' during the German offensive in Tunisia in Febuary-March 1943.

This is the order of battle for the 3 groups of the Kampfgruppe.

Structure: "Gruppe Kleeberg":
II./Panzer-Regiment 7 (one company)
I./Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 69
I./Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 90
Afrika-Bataillon 33 (A33)
2./Pionier-Bataillon 334 (one platoon)

Structure: "Gruppe Koch"
II./Jäger-Regiment "Hermann Göring"
II./Artillerie-Regiment 190

Structure: "Gruppe Holzinger"
Gebirgsjäger-Regiment 756
Bataillon Mickley
9./Artillerie-Regiment 90
3./Pionier-Bataillon 334
II./(ital.) 92
The "Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment. 90 was set up in spring 1942 through renaming the
"Artillery-Regiment. 90" of the 10. Panzer-Division.
On July, 19th 1942 the Heeres-Flakartillerie-Abteilung. 302 became part of the
Panzer-Artillery-Regiment 90 as IV./.Flak-Battery.
1943 the regiment received a Sturmgeschütz-Batterie.
The regiment was destroyed in May 1943 in Tunis

 

[sceic2]

At the present time (1827 on 01/11/07) I am typing this and watching my second viewing of "Dead Men's Secrets" on the History International Channel on Directv. The program description on the screen states, "Secrets of the Desert War- Italy and Germany attempt to wrest control of the Suez Canal from Britain." It is the story of the creation and history of the British LRDG. Great program that traces David Stirling formation of the group and the German counter part the "Afrika Kompanie." Anyway, in one of the scenes from the NA campaign, a burntout stug is shown. I can not tell what version as it is on the screen very quickly and it is in the distance in the camera shot. But it it a stug.

Its a great program showing and telling all about the trucks and jeeps of the SAS LRDG and how they were outfitted and some of their war accomplishments. Pictures of Stirling as he is promoted, etc.

 

[nmrocks]

In the November issue of WWII History there is also an excellent story of Paddy Mayne one of the key figures in the SAS working in the North african theater and instimental in the raids on German/Italian airfields behind enemy lines.
Ray

 

[Louis Badolato]

I was watching "Battlefront" last night on the North African campaign and the footage of Rommel's forces depicted a short barrelled Stug III (I am no expert so can't tell you which letter it was).

 

[Rob]

I was watching "Battlefront" last night on the North African campaign and the footage of Rommel's forces depicted a short barrelled Stug III (I am no expert so can't tell you which letter it was).

Is that the series that is in colour Louis?.Quite like that one,my fave is probably Battlefield and Line of Fire.Can highly recommend 'Tanks' as well,some excellant footage.

Rob

 

[Louis Badolato]

Is that the series that is in colour Louis?.Quite like that one,my fave is probably Battlefield and Line of Fire.Can highly recommend 'Tanks' as well,some excellant footage.

Rob

Yes Rob,

The series is partially in color, and it is one of my favorites because each episode involves commentary from a member of the opposing forces who actually participated in the campaign. The one about the Battle of Midway, for example, has commentary from a U.S. Dive Bomber Pilot who attacked the Soryu, and a Japanese Torpedo Bomber Pilot who attacked the Yorktown.

 

[Rob]

Yes that does give it that extra interest doesn't it.

Rob.