D-day releases?? (1 Viewer)

[desk11desk12]

About 500 LVTs were in Europe at D-Day, mostly in Italy. LVTs had been used in the North Africa Landings, Straights of Messina and Po River in Italy. Their advantage was they could go right up on the beach and had rear doors for the troops unlike most landing craft which had to stop at the surf line, front opening doors and troops wading through the water.


AMPHIBIOUS OPERATIONS by Barry Graham mentions an LVT II on Utah Beach with the 4th Infantry Division. As the LVTs came from the US Marines, they were likely used to land only American troops at Normandy on D-Day

The one Figarti LVT with the verticle yellow stripe probably would not need repainting.

I am going to use the K&C LVT from Iwo Jima.

Terry

Great information Terry. What's very interesting is that Figarti LVT is exactly the same size if the Iwo Jima series KC LVT.

Thank you

Carlos

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Great information Terry. What's very interesting is that Figarti LVT is exactly the same size if the Iwo Jima series KC LVT.

Thank you

Carlos

The Figarti LVT is 1/32 scale. See the one on the Treefrog site. Since the K&C version is the same size, it must be 1/32 too. It would make it hard to fit a 1/30 K&C jeep with extra gear in the K&C LVT as OzDigger pointed out.

Terry

 

[binder001]

About 500 LVTs were in Europe at D-Day, mostly in Italy. LVTs had been used in the North Africa Landings, Straights of Messina and Po River in Italy. Their advantage was they could go right up on the beach and had rear doors for the troops unlike most landing craft which had to stop at the surf line, front opening doors and troops wading through the water. AMPHIBIOUS OPERATIONS by Barry Graham mentions an LVT II on Utah Beach with the 4th Infantry Division. As the LVTs came from the US Marines, they were likely used to land only American troops at Normandy on D-Day Terry

Terry,

1) THere is no verified account of any LVTs being used in the assault role on 6/6/44 in France. The LVTs that were in England were employed later as logistic vehicles. A good reference is Jonathan Gawne's "Spearheading D-Day", an in depth look at the assault troops and their gear. Gawne went over several variations of the original landing plans. There is an LVT from 1944 on display at one of the beach museums (Utah?) in Normandy, which led people to believe that they were used to land troops, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The LVT was probably a lot less efficient as a logistics vehicle as the DUKW - WW2-vintage LVTs were maintenance intensive.

2) Not all the LVTs came "from the Marines". The US Army bought a LOT of LVTs of various types under their own contracts. In the Pacific the Army had several Amphibious Tractor Battalions and Amphibious Tank Battalions. The British received a number of LVTs also that saw service later in Europe.

3) Only later LVTs (LVT3 and LVT4) had rear ramps. In the earlier ones (LVT1 and LVT2) the troops had to disembark by jumping over the sides of the vehicle.

Gary

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry,

1) THere is no verified account of any LVTs being used in the assault role on 6/6/44 in France. The LVTs that were in England were employed later as logistic vehicles. A good reference is Jonathan Gawne's "Spearheading D-Day", an in depth look at the assault troops and their gear. Gawne went over several variations of the original landing plans. There is an LVT from 1944 on display at one of the beach museums (Utah?) in Normandy, which led people to believe that they were used to land troops, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The LVT was probably a lot less efficient as a logistics vehicle as the DUKW - WW2-vintage LVTs were maintenance intensive.

2) Not all the LVTs came "from the Marines". The US Army bought a LOT of LVTs of various types under their own contracts. In the Pacific the Army had several Amphibious Tractor Battalions and Amphibious Tank Battalions. The British received a number of LVTs also that saw service later in Europe.

3) Only later LVTs (LVT3 and LVT4) had rear ramps. In the earlier ones (LVT1 and LVT2) the troops had to disembark by jumping over the sides of the vehicle.

Gary

1) You are correct. There is no "Verified" account of LVT's being used at Normandy on D-Day and some older LVTs were later used as logistics vehicles.. There are only some anecdotal references. And the LVT on Utah beach in 1944 may or may not have been used in the landings. The are a few other LTV's still at Normandy on display but I believe these were purchased from contractors many years after the war and put on display. I have searched but never found any reference to any LTVs being used on D-Day. And yes, a lot of DUKWs were used. These were more efficient and could easily run on roads with other transport while LTV's could not efficiently and were trucked to river crossings.

2) True - not all LTV's came from Marines although they were the first units to have them, even prior to army units in the pacific. The British (and do not forget us Canadians) received a number of LVTs for river crossings and the Scheldt Estuary.

3) True about the ramps. I was speaking only about the K&C and one of the Figarti LTVs which are LTV 4s - I should have been more clear.

There are 2 Osprey booklets Amtracs US Amphibious Assault Vehicles (Steven Zaloga) and US World War II Amphibious Tactics: Mediterranean & European Theaters (Gordon Rottman) which may have more info. Does anyone have these.

Terry

 

[binder001]

I have both of those Osprey releases and they are good. I don't recall any more info on the LVT in Europe, at least nothing that wasn't in print before.

Another good book is "Across The Reef: The Amphibious Tracked Vehicle At War" by Victor J. Croizat. Lots of developmental info. For modelers there was a nice series of booklets by Dave Harper published by Letterman Press. There have also been some very nice articles in the English magazine "Military Modeling" that deal with detailing the LVTs used by the British and Canadians in NW Europe.

You are quite correct that the USMC had the LVT before the Army. Fortunately they helped get the vehicle into military service and used the first ones at Guadalcanal.

Gary B.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I have both of those Osprey releases and they are good. I don't recall any more info on the LVT in Europe, at least nothing that wasn't in print before.

Another good book is "Across The Reef: The Amphibious Tracked Vehicle At War" by Victor J. Croizat. Lots of developmental info. For modelers there was a nice series of booklets by Dave Harper published by Letterman Press. There have also been some very nice articles in the English magazine "Military Modeling" that deal with detailing the LVTs used by the British and Canadians in NW Europe.

You are quite correct that the USMC had the LVT before the Army. Fortunately they helped get the vehicle into military service and used the first ones at Guadalcanal.

Gary B.

I just saw a program on tv a few days ago which commented that in one landing, the marines using LVTs got to the beaches easily while other marines were on other landing craft which had to stop at the outer edge of of the coral reef. They had to disembark and wade though chest high water in the lagoon and took heavy casualties.

 

[binder001]

I just saw a program on tv a few days ago which commented that in one landing, the marines using LVTs got to the beaches easily while other marines were on other landing craft which had to stop at the outer edge of of the coral reef. They had to disembark and wade though chest high water in the lagoon and took heavy casualties.

That's a classic description of Tarawa. In the assault on Betio island the Marines got caought in an unusual neap tide. The LCVPs and LCMs could get up to the beach and only part of the force was in the LVT's (they were still new and in short supply). Tarawa made believers out of any skeptics in the USMC command structure that the tracked assault vehicle was a "must have" for opposed landings. The LVT came out looking good as did the medium tank. The Marines originally planned on various models of "Stuart" light tank as they were easily transportable but despite high losses the M4A2s at Betio made a significant difference. From then on medium tanks were landed ASAP to support the infantry and the armed Amtracs were developed.

Gary

 

[noli-poli]

1) You are correct. There is no "Verified" account of LVT's being used at Normandy on D-Day and some older LVTs were later used as logistics vehicles.. There are only some anecdotal references. And the LVT on Utah beach in 1944 may or may not have been used in the landings. The are a few other LTV's still at Normandy on display but I believe these were purchased from contractors many years after the war and put on display. I have searched but never found any reference to any LTVs being used on D-Day. And yes, a lot of DUKWs were used. These were more efficient and could easily run on roads with other transport while LTV's could not efficiently and were trucked to river crossings.

2) True - not all LTV's came from Marines although they were the first units to have them, even prior to army units in the pacific. The British (and do not forget us Canadians) received a number of LVTs for river crossings and the Scheldt Estuary.

3) True about the ramps. I was speaking only about the K&C and one of the Figarti LTVs which are LTV 4s - I should have been more clear.

There are 2 Osprey booklets Amtracs US Amphibious Assault Vehicles (Steven Zaloga) and US World War II Amphibious Tactics: Mediterranean & European Theaters (Gordon Rottman) which may have more info. Does anyone have these.

Terry

I thought this website (Battlefield Normandy) might help. It shows presence of LVTs in Europe in WWII. The article also talks of LVTs being used in UTAH beach for dispatch use:

http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/normandie1/home.htm

N-P

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I thought this website (Battlefield Normandy) might help. It shows presence of LVTs in Europe in WWII. The article also talks of LVTs being used in UTAH beach for dispatch use:

http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/normandie1/home.htm

N-P

Good article. Thanks

Terry

 

[OzDigger]

Here's a photo I just snapped of my Dragon 1/72 scale LCM-3. This model came packed with a plastic beach, obstacles and several GIs representing an Omaha Beach landing or similar scene.

I have put one of my Sherman tanks inside to prove that a tank of that size will fit ok and also to demonstrate that the LCM-3 is an ideal size for a 1/30 scale model. My model Cromwell tank also fitted as did an M3 Halftrack but the Churchill was a bit wide - sorry about that Rob. Of course there is the reality that the LCM-3 landing craft had a limited tonnage so the weight of a tank is as important as its dimensions but for our purposes I feel the LCM-3 is the most suitable. There is of course the LCM-6 which was six foot longer but I believe it arrived late on the WWII scene.