Dangerous Eveloution in Soldier Sculpting (1 Viewer)

[theBaron]

Baron I agree with you about people being different sizes but there is something different about ranges made by different companies.I can't explain it to you in words but looking at them you can tell the differences.I was reading about movies which are animated but also look kind of real like Polar Express.They had a term for it but there's a creepiness about them and it makes people feel uncomfortable.I feel the same way about miniatures.
Mark

I agree with you, a maker's style is something we also take into account, when deciding to display figures from different manufacturers together. Some figures are not compatible, because they look too different. But again, that's not necessarily the same issue as a good range taking a turn for the worse.

Prost!
Brad

 

[marco55]

Very true Brad.I might have stayed a bit from the main theme of the thread.
Mark

 

[Plastic General]

I know this sounds crazy, I just don't want the sculpting to get as loose as the TIMPO Napoleonic figures.
I feel the TSSD German helmets look more like foreskins than 1935 German helmets.
Compare them to AIRFIX or ESCI sculpting, compare HANDS.
If I was the owner, on inspection of the prototypes,
I would have sent them back to the sculpture and demand a LESS LOOSE interpretation of this famous helmet.
Standards do have to be upheld, in MY humble opinion.

The Plastic General

 

[theBaron]

Very true Brad.I might have stayed a bit from the main theme of the thread.
Mark

Oh, no, not at all, Mark! I was referring to the OP's reply to my earlier post. He started off talking about how the newer figures looked out of proportion, which statement I addressed, then he shifted to a statement that they're in a different scale. I wanted to clarify just what the discussion is about.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Warrior]

He started off talking about how the newer figures looked out of proportion, which statement I addressed, then he shifted to a statement that they're in a different scale. I wanted to clarify just what the discussion is about.

Thanks for trying to clarify what the discussion is about because I really have no clue what it's about.

This "dangerous evolution" regarding WWII German helmets and oversized hands makes zero sense to me as once again, these are not new figures, the last 11 TSSD sets have had nothing to do with Germans, German helmets or WWII in general.

The OP is referring to figures that to the best of my knowledge are well over 6 years old, if not more.

The most recent figures from TSSD, Alamo Mexicans and Texans, are very well done, excellent sculpts.

If there are issues with scale on these, I haven't heard from any of the numerous customers of mine who bought them that there are any.....................

 

[binder001]

As a plastic guy I had to chime in.

Scale of figures - this has been hashed out over and over. I think that the "scale problem" will be with us as long as there are plastic figures. Each manufacturer has a "style" and this often translates into size and detail differences. Back in the 50's and 60s when I was a kid you could easily tell the differences. Ideal GIs were about 60-65mm size, the Timmee figures were pushing the 60-65mm size, but had different proportions, Peyton produced little guys, MPC produced their "ringhand" figures in about 1/25th scale Marx came along and produced a number of different sets in different sizes but ended up making some truly classic 54mm plastic figures. Even in the Marx sets one can see the effects of a different sculptor or production team - we collectors divide them into "Marines" and "GIs" and one can easily see the sculpting differences even though the ranges are only a couple years apart and the figures ended up being produced concurrently.

Even in the scale model world we have problems. Most Tamiya figures has very short necks, many GI steel helmets from a number of manufacturers are proportioned more like the fiber liners than the steel pot. Each set of sculptors for the different companies have different styles. So if the fellows who target a constant 1/35th can't get it right, I don't see where we can get too mean to the guys who market to the "toy" market. I am a big fan of Conte's GI figures and one can see the differences between the figures done by Oriz and Osen. On TSSD oue can easily see that the guy who sculpted the first set of GIs wasn't the same one who did the "Heavy Weapons" set, the same goes for the various sets of Germans. As well as German helmets I wish we had some more GI helmets that looked closer to the ones in TSSDs original sets of GIs, the "Heavy Weapons" sets helmets look closer to British paratrooper helmets.

As a convertor as well as a collector I really wish we had a constant scale and certain levels of detail, but that sure isn't limited to TSSD. I guess we have to deal with what we get until I win the "big lottery" and start a custom line of WW2 plastics

As far as hating you for your opinions - don't worry too much. On an internet forum like this one can NOT please everybody.

Gary B.

 

[pylgrym]

Gosh, fellows,
I thought the forum was about "TOY" soldiers?
'
{sm2}

 

[Oldallamerican]

That reminds me of the good times I had with my brothers as a boy. What I try to recapture when I play - at least when I'm not trying to recreate history.

 

[Marxmaniac]

Saw the comment on the Conte GI differences between Ortiz and Osen. Curious tell me one done by Ortiz and one done by Osen for comparison. Interested in seeing myself.

I think one "evolution" to use the vogue term on this discussion, that has occurred and was noted to me by one of my collector friends (because he does not care for it) is that the new production figures TSSD, Conte, and the like are more 3 dimensional and stouter which adds to the appearance of being bigger. Marx were more 2D because of the single cast mold restrictions when compared to today's figures which have multiple parts glued together.

Also, I wish Paragon would address the shrunken head syndrome. they are a great addition, but the heads and weapons appear too small for the body


Appeal for some mounted Indians and cavalry firing rifles straight ahead. Also some mounted cowboys riding in the saddle casually.

 

[Plastic General]

Saw the comment on the Conte GI differences between Ortiz and Osen. Curious tell me one done by Ortiz and one done by Osen for comparison. Interested in seeing myself.

I think one "evolution" to use the vogue term on this discussion, that has occurred and was noted to me by one of my collector friends (because he does not care for it) is that the new production figures TSSD, Conte, and the like are more 3 dimensional and stouter which adds to the appearance of being bigger. Marx were more 2D because of the single cast mold restrictions when compared to today's figures which have multiple parts glued together.

Also, I wish Paragon would address the shrunken head syndrome. they are a great addition, but the heads and weapons appear too small for the body


Appeal for some mounted Indians and cavalry firing rifles straight ahead. Also some mounted cowboys riding in the saddle casually.

It's a huge pet-peeve of mine, when the sculptures take too much artistic liberty when doing toy soldiers.
I love them, but the Pegasus Germ. Para. heads are also too small.

Plastic General

 

[binder001]

Saw the comment on the Conte GI differences between Ortiz and Osen. Curious tell me one done by Ortiz and one done by Osen for comparison. Interested in seeing myself.

Look for the figures that are the same, or extremely similar, to the metal figures from ONTC - those were Ken Osen's. Some of the Ortiz figures inlude the MG team I think). Some Ortiz GIs tend to have a wee bit more "wrinkles" on their clothing, but are very close to the others. The use of two sculptors was mentioned in a Conte newsletter way back when these were just coming out. I don't know who came up with the infamous "Sarge" - a nice figure with way too much "personality".

I still wish that there would be another run of the Conte GI's along with somebody making resin or plastic hands and heads for conversions.

Gary B.

 

[Thomasb]

I agree that a 1/32 or 1/30 scale company that could produce heads, helmets and small arms for conversions is needed. Ideally it would be a marriage of someone with avast military collection and a 3d printer. Take the M-1 Helmet as an example, if you have the helmet add cloth cover for Marines.netting for Army, rubber band around netting for French in Indochina and cloth cover with band around it for Vietnam. So you could print out helmets for 4 different Wars/Campaigns with only 1 helmet and accessories.

 

[binder001]

As 3D printing comes down in price I think we will see a bigger impact from this technology in our "toy" soldiers. There is a company called Live Resin that produces absolutely fabulous small arms in 1/35th scale. Right now most of their products are modern, but they have started doing some WW2 firearms as well. They use a well researched CAD design to generate a 3D printed master then cast the parts in resin. This would be a great way to produce limited runs of parts and accessories (or even complete figures). One needs a source of good scans or CAD drawings, then one needs access to a good quality 3D printer, then one needs someone who is very good at resin casting. One could generate hands, complete with rings or wrist watches, then some new heads, then helmets and/or caps from various nationalities. You could end up with the equivalent of Airfix multi-pose sets, but you could have them in whatever scale you needed. The prospects are staggering!

 

[Plastic General]

3D PRINTING, is going to collapse the entire industry and at the same time, make ALL our toy soldier dreams come true.

 

[wds0855]

I was in a Mall that has a Microsoft owned retail store. They had a desktop 3D printing on display and it was creating sample plastic products. It was making little plastic animal figures that looked like they would be 54mm compatilble. Was really cool to see it in use.

Walt

 

[Warrior]

3D PRINTING, is going to collapse the entire industry and at the same time, make ALL our toy soldier dreams come true.

Do me a favor and keep me posted on this whole "the entire industry is going to collapse" theory of yours; as soon as it's about to happen, I'll get out of the toy soldier selling business and into the 3D printer selling business.

I need to stay ahead of the curve on this................

 

[The Military Workshop]

George,
Selling printers does not sound that interesting.

The whole nature of the forum would change. Instead of people saying a certain brand rules we would have my 3D printer produces better Geman cam than yours. Another might reply but my MG's are better. Or my German Grey is closer to the right colour than yours. Could have discussions about how much of various colours had to be added to get the right mixture. Naturally some will have better printers than others and some will keep upgrading to keep up with others. Will it become like now where the printers become cheap but the "cartridge" becomes very expensive. Printing time will be a factor as one person might want multiple Naps. One issue will be the source material to create the items and some might be more accurate than others. Will there be the cheaper TS 3D printer that only does less detailed glossies or the Ken Osen / Alan Ball deluxe printer. Much bigger printers that do buildings etc. (maybe the 54mm scale pyramid is not such a dream after all! ).

The forum categories will no longer be brand names but the different level of 3D printers.

Should make fascinating reading.

Brett



QUOTE=Warrior;617003]What sets are you referring to; you said in your post that you see a problem "starting to take form", then you mention German helmets.

So I assume you are not pleased with the TSSD WWII figures; that said, they haven't done a WWII set in a long time, so how can this be a recent, ie "starting to take form" problem?

Please clarify.[/QUOTE]