Dead and Wounded Figures (1 Viewer)

[King's Man]

Andy has made it clear that he is reluctant to manufacture figures of soldiers laying wound or dead. While not having dead soldiers in a WW2 diorama is believable because the soldiers are fighting in a skirmish formation. Displaying an attacking unit in the age of the muskets, American Revolution or Napoleonic makes for large square formations. A diorama of such a formation would have the land behind it showing some dead and wounded figures. I will address Andy’s main reason for not producing these figures; that they don’t sell.

1st Point:

When you manufacture a flag bearer or an officer figure you can expect that these will sell less then regular infantry because only one or two are need in each display. My American Revolution companies have 30 troopers, but only one officer. Yet K&C still makes officer figures because they are needed to be represented in the diorama for it to make sense. I would think wounded or dead soldiers would sell at least as much as officer figures.

2nd Point

WW2 dead and wound didn’t sell well, but try giving them a chance in the American Revolution and Napoleonic lines. How can you have a convincing diorama of British infantry attacking a firing American line with showing some casualties? Produce just one laying wounded British figure. Test the waters again, our dioramas need the realism.

King’s Man

 

[wellington]

I too agree we need dead and wounded soldiers, I wonder how the 42nd highlander made out with the shot in the face? It was refreshing to see such a figure, I made sure I bought one!!!!

Cheers
WELLINGTON

 

[sceic2]

I emailed Andy about two or three years ago concerning this same subject. His response then was the same as it is today, "wounded and dead do not sell." I trust his facts, after all he is the guy with the sales figures. However, often a company uses "loss leaders" to draw in the cash from sales of the more profitable items. Perhaps wounded and dead could be K&C's loss leaders and be used with creative marketing, like get a set of wounded and dead for half price with every five sets purchased. To some this sounds cheesy, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I would love to see some wounded and dead Napoleonic figures. The guy getting shot in the face is great; I have three of them and I try to pose them at different angles, seperated by other non-wounded, to hide the fact that they each are shot in the face. I read in a post concerning Andy's comments at the NY event, about no dead horses, but what is a Napoleonic battlefield without dead soldiers and dead horses. I don't think it is as stupid as it sounds. "Bring out your dead." Michael

 

[gk5717]

Michael, there you go again being politically incorrect, "Getting shot in the face is great" and Wellington "Shot in the face, it was refreshing to see such a figure" I,m appalled!
GUYS, JUST KIDDING! It did read funny tho, getting shot in the face is great.
I know you Napolianic collectors collect multiples of the same pose, but I would guess most WW2, or for that matter general K&C collectors go for one pose of each figure. I have never bought multiples.
Andy says dead and wounded don,t sell, but put those retired sets on ebay and watch them go.
How about a dead Normandy bloated cow with his legs sticking up in the air, now that would be a great pose.
Gary

 

[sceic2]

How about a dead Normandy bloated cow with his legs sticking up in the air, now that would be a great pose. Gary

Finally, yes, bring on the dead cows!!! I don't think that there is anything PC about dead cows. Woops, I forgot PETA. (I'a am a member of PETA - People who Eat Tasty Animals) Michael

 

[wellington]

Andy did make the wounded guy ....what is the difference between him, dying or dead???????


WELLINGTON

 

[jazzeum]

If you have to ask the difference between dying and dead, why don't you try both states and report to us (although I suggest the former before the latter).

As far as "loss leaders," when I mentioned that to him recently, he merely snorted.

I happen to have the WS 30. I saw it in Chicago, subsequently got it, but it doesn't do much for me. In fact, it's put away. I'd agree with him on this point. It's only valuable because it's retired, it's older K & C and it's German. No other reason.

 

[Warrior]

As a child, I collected Airfix ho/oo sets and since I staged elaborate battles with them, I always liked the sets with dead and wounded poses. Two of my all time favorite poses are in the highlander set; the dead figure and the one falling backward wounded. Couldn't do a proper square at Waterloo without them.

As far as dead/wounded K & C figures, I'm finding more and more of my customers are staging large "battle" type displays as opposed to figures lined up on shelves. Last time I checked, soldiers were killed and wounded during battles, so perhaps the dead/wounded debate should be readdressed; just my .02....................

 

[Fubar]

Here we go again with the bloated cows and other gory details.MOOOO!
True enough.I just set up a massive Peninsula display. Guess what? Not enough casualties to make it look right.

As grim as it is, if you want to do the Gettysburg Cyclorama, or a Trioni Battle scene in 3 d Miniature you must have the fallen.
Same for WW2.
I've always done scenes , never have lined them up in a case to stare at them.
If thats your bag, great.Knock yourself out.
I'd rather do scenes and dioramas and wreckage, human or otherwise is what makes it LOOK like a moment of history frozen in 3d miniatures. My 2 cents.

By the way, I wish I had that KC set of dead SS.

So, Should I attempt to sculptACW , AWI and Napoleonic DEAD GUYS???
I'm trying, drawing came back pretty decent after 20 years and I am attempting to sculpt and casualties I thought might be the way to start.Teeth cutting time.
FUBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[OzDigger]

I don't buy wounded, dead, or even prone figures as they don't fit in with my collecting preference. However I think the odd one now and again adds variety for those that are into them - in varying degrees.

And just for the record a guy that is standing and looks 'wounded' may be dead before he hits the ground so the 'difference' between him and a dead soldier already on the ground may be more subtle than some perceive.

Btw, those figures with their hands in the air falling backwards are more theatrical than realistic. Animals and humans that are shot are rarely forced back by the impact, they usually just fall to the ground like a bag of the proverbial.

 

[wellington]

My comment about differencs between wounded, dead and dying was meant to point out that it would costs the same to manufacture ... if he has done a wounded guy and I suspect it was successful then why not the other two poses.......


Cheers
WELLINGTON

 

[sceic2]

As far as "loss leaders," when I mentioned that to him recently, he merely snorted.

Well.... I guess that answers that. Michael

 

[jazzeum]

Michael,

It wasn't in reference to Dead soldiers, just the idea that he would do anything that could be characterized as a loss leader.

 

[Combat]

There is a wounded figure in the Berlin series that fits in nicely. But overall would agree that they will not sell in great numbers.

 

[hoogri]

I set of wounded gi at battle of the bulge will be nice .
of some wounded for duinkerk .

richard

 

[panda1gen]

For my tuppence worth, what might sell better in WW2 is a lightly wounded bloke, perhaps smoking a cig, with a pretty jeep to get him to the aid station and maybe an even prettier nurse - MASH style?

As for Naploenics, if 'Sharpe' is anything to go by, a few decorative 'fallen' or falling would seem to be required. I saw another dealer, can't remember which one, at the London show in March had a rather dashing falling horse scene and I think cavalry sits well with this, why not infantry?

 

[CannonFodder1971]

So, Should I attempt to sculptACW , AWI and Napoleonic DEAD GUYS???
I'm trying, drawing came back pretty decent after 20 years and I am attempting to sculpt and casualties I thought might be the way to start.Teeth cutting time.
FUBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Have a look at all the Del Prado 'Napoleon at War' figures. The foot-soldiers for example are in pretty static poses as they were not designed for creative beauty but with a view to the requirement that they fit into a small packaging rectangular thing. The 71st Light Infantry is probably a good candidate for 'surgery' as he is leaning on his rifle in such a manner that would look like he was grasping a chest wound if the musket was removed. You'd need to remove the base too and file the boots into shape. Any painted cheap army man playset stretcher could probably accommodate him. (You could decapitate him and use the head of a guy with bandages, which of course needn't be from the Napoleonic range at all).

Ok so that's one outlandish example, and some attempts on other figures would cost you as much in time and effort as having someone else do the conversions but overall I believe that there can be a few K&C-adaptable Del Prado pieces for the casualty list. (Depending upon the gait of some of the horses, and allowing for a Damien Hirst type surgery, you could probably have a dead horse from behind which a standard K&C figure could fire).

 

[Fullyautomatic]

I have heard Andy's view on poor sales of casualty figures but if they were made into a dual pack of four Allies and four German casualty sets and labelled as a Strictly Limited( 8 figs for $200) series of 500 I bet they would sell out. Even for the Napolionic guys the same could be done.
Just a thought...

 

[sceic2]

I have heard Andy's view on poor sales of casualty figures but if they were made into a dual pack of four Allies and four German casualty sets and labelled as a Strictly Limited( 8 figs for $200) series of 500 I bet they would sell out. Even for the Napolionic guys the same could be done.
Just a thought...

I think that is a good idea. It adds the marketing aspect of limited edition and still satisfys a market need. I would like to see a set of wounded for each of the various series (Fields of Battle, Fall of Berlin, etc.). But, I think loss leaders is a good marketing tool too; according to Brad (Jazzeum) all Andy did was snort when the subject was discussed. I'm not the one that owns the company and is making a profit from my ideas, so... Michael

 

[nmrocks]

How about a set of 4 with two from each side, say B of B,a german foot soldier, and a dead tanker and an American and a Brit.
You could do the same nicely in North Africa?
Ray