Does anyone know why the D-Day sets include units of the US 3rd Infantry division (1 Viewer)

45thdiv

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It's always struck me as odd that K&C would get this unit mixed up. The 3rd Division was in Italy at the time of D-Day. The US 4th Division, a nice colorful patch, was on Utah beach. I hate repainting a figure, but these guys were not in Europe, they were with the 45th division in Italy. Maybe one day K&C will do the MTO campaign. That would be nice. And it would be nice to have some 4th division units for D-Day as well.

Just wondering if anyone had any insight.

Thanks,

Matthew
 
Without trying to be controversial just replying to your question its more likely its just down to poor research than anything else.
Mitch

It's always struck me as odd that K&C would get this unit mixed up. The 3rd Division was in Italy at the time of D-Day. The US 4th Division, a nice colorful patch, was on Utah beach. I hate repainting a figure, but these guys were not in Europe, they were with the 45th division in Italy. Maybe one day K&C will do the MTO campaign. That would be nice. And it would be nice to have some 4th division units for D-Day as well.

Just wondering if anyone had any insight.

Thanks,

Matthew
 
It's always struck me as odd that K&C would get this unit mixed up. The 3rd Division was in Italy at the time of D-Day. The US 4th Division, a nice colorful patch, was on Utah beach. I hate repainting a figure, but these guys were not in Europe, they were with the 45th division in Italy. Maybe one day K&C will do the MTO campaign. That would be nice. And it would be nice to have some 4th division units for D-Day as well.

Just wondering if anyone had any insight.

Thanks,

Matthew

Matthew,
There were many D-days. The 3th US infantry div took part in the landings not only in N-Africa and Sicily and Anzio, but on the 15th august 1944 they took also part in the second D-day in France,nl: the landings on the St Tropez beaches in Southern France. After the landing they crossed France from the South to the North, ending their French campaign in Strasbourg and Colmar.
guy:)
 
Let me start by saying that I love the K&C figures, but research has not been K&Cs strongpoint until the last couple years. I think that Andy may have been watching "To Hell And Back" too many times. A lot of K&C stuff is made because it "looks good". Things like an M3A1 scout car in frontline US service as late as the Bulge, the 3rd Infantry Division in with the Normandy figures, etc. No, the "other DDay" argument doesn't cut it with me - these figures were marketed as "Normandy" figures and are displayed that way in collections and even in K&C advertising. On the good news the 3rd Infantry Division is one of the US Army's oldest and proudest divisions. From WW1 thru Operation Iraqi Freedom, the "Rock of the Marne" has been defending America.

Gary B.
 
Matthew,
There were many D-days. The 3th US infantry div took part in the landings not only in N-Africa and Sicily and Anzio, but on the 15th august 1944 they took also part in the second D-day in France,nl: the landings on the St Tropez beaches in Southern France. After the landing they crossed France from the South to the North, ending their French campaign in Strasbourg and Colmar.
guy:)

That's a good point, you're correct, "D-Day" was the designation for the day in the plan, as H-Hour was the designated hour of execution (with plus and minus designations for days/hours after and before the target date/hour).

On the other hand, "D-Day" has a certain connotation in the broader sense, identifying with the Normandy invasion. That is to say, that many people, outside our hobby but also within, probably think "Normandy, June 6, 1944", when they hear "D-Day", so it's perhaps imprecise, if K&C meant another operation.

It reminds me of a controversy last month about the October issue of "FineScale Modeler", that featured an article on a build of Trumpeter's 1/32 TBF, finished as "a Midway Avenger". The model was finished in relatively pristine condition, with markings that included the meatballs and rudder stripes that US Navy aircraft carried in the first months of 1942. Those markings were painted out by the day of the battle, and we had the same kind of discussion--when you hear "Midway," what do you think of? Do you think of an aircraft of a type used in the battle, but as it appeared several months before, when it was delivered to the Navy? Or do you think of the famous photo of Ensign Earnest's TBF, the only surviving aircraft of Torpedo 8, on the ramp at Midway? There were those who took the first line, but by that token, you could build a model of the Yorktown as she appeared at launch, and call it a "Midway carrier".

But having said all that, it sounds like they goofed it up.

Prost!
Brad
 
Which sets are 3rd infantry division. The only one I noticed is DD032 mortar set which clearly has the 3rd Division blue and white diagonal stripes patch. I don't have any other sets with that patch and can't see the patch in any other photos of sets I don't have?

Terry
 
That's a good point, you're correct, "D-Day" was the designation for the day in the plan, as H-Hour was the designated hour of execution (with plus and minus designations for days/hours after and before the target date/hour).

On the other hand, "D-Day" has a certain connotation in the broader sense, identifying with the Normandy invasion. That is to say, that many people, outside our hobby but also within, probably think "Normandy, June 6, 1944", when they hear "D-Day", so it's perhaps imprecise, if K&C meant another operation.

It reminds me of a controversy last month about the October issue of "FineScale Modeler", that featured an article on a build of Trumpeter's 1/32 TBF, finished as "a Midway Avenger". The model was finished in relatively pristine condition, with markings that included the meatballs and rudder stripes that US Navy aircraft carried in the first months of 1942. Those markings were painted out by the day of the battle, and we had the same kind of discussion--when you hear "Midway," what do you think of? Do you think of an aircraft of a type used in the battle, but as it appeared several months before, when it was delivered to the Navy? Or do you think of the famous photo of Ensign Earnest's TBF, the only surviving aircraft of Torpedo 8, on the ramp at Midway? There were those who took the first line, but by that token, you could build a model of the Yorktown as she appeared at launch, and call it a "Midway carrier".

But having said all that, it sounds like they goofed it up.

Prost!
Brad

Good point. I never took K&C range titles or what was in them seriously. Their DDay range includes pre-D-Day items and items from 1945 long after D-Day. The Bulge series includes AFVs that were never at the Bulge. The 3rd Division mortar set DD032 looks OK for western Europe late 1944 when the Division was actually there.

Terry
 
Which sets are 3rd infantry division. The only one I noticed is DD032 mortar set which clearly has the 3rd Division blue and white diagonal stripes patch. I don't have any other sets with that patch and can't see the patch in any other photos of sets I don't have?

Terry
Hi Terry. I had DD033, a four figure US infantry set, that also had 3rd Division markings on their shoulders. If I remember correctly, there was a BAR man, a Tommy gunner, and 2 soldiers with Garands. -- Al
 
Hi

Other sets besides DD-33 with 3rd infantry are DD-44 US tank riders, DD-43 infantry patrol (I may be wrong on this one, I'm not home at the moment to look, but pretty sure) and DD-38, The M8 Greyhound driver is wearing a 3rd infantry patch.

I have never seen the Mortar team set.

I do understand the meaning of the various "D-Days" so I should have been clear in the post that these are all represented as Normandy figures.

Gary, I am with you , and everyone else in the fact that I love the figures that K&C puts out. Just wish the research was a bit better. Not to hard to find out what was where and what the patch looks like. And the 4th division patch is a very nice patch.

Go 3rd Infantry!!!!! All we got was a decommission after Korea to the 45th Infantry Brigade, reserve unit in Oklahoma, if it's still an active reserve unit after 25 years. Not sure. Been away too long and lost touch with too many people to count.

Anyway Love the figures, look forward to more Normandy D-Day sets and would not mind seeing MTO sets come out. Would give a great range of new German units too.

Matthew
 
here is the mortar set. http://cis.niagara.edu/kandc/detail.php?code=DD032

I have the Greyhound and had not noticed the 3rd infantry patch on the 3/4 commander figure. The 1/2 driver figure has no markings. And my DD044 tank riders also have the 3rd patch. I don't have the infantry patrols DD033 and DD 043 and the pictures don't show the shoulder where the patch would be.

Terry.
 
I have all of these sets, except DD 33 (somehow never got that one) and all the paras (except for the very early ones, DD 01) and although maybe not perfect historically (to each his own), I love 'em all, some of the better sets they have made (then and now). M8 is one of the first sets I got, never letting that one go :wink2:

Gary says the research wasn't as good then and maybe so but at the time we probably weren't as fixated (and I don't mean that in a pejorative or insulting way) on the small details like we are now, nor was there a Forum to point out the errors :wink2:
 
Jazzeum,

I have only been collecting K&C WW2 for 3 years now, so I have had to hunt down the older sets and I love them all, especially the M8. Actually I think my favorite set at the moment is the British Bren gun carrier, but that's off topic.

I'm not trying to criticize, It's just that these sets were retired when I came into the hobby so I only started to acquire them within the last year. And as you point out, the pictures don't always show the division patch. I would not get rid of these sets for anything. I would just like to see some other division patches come out.

I do skirmish war-games with these figures and there are not enough American, or British to fight certain battles, so I use them all mixed together. It's more about the look of the figures and the animation that they portray thank having the correct patch for their unit.

Everyone seems to think I am bad mouthing the figures. I am not. I like them a lot. It was just a thought that hit me the other day when I was looking at them, and that's all.

Matthew
 
Matthew,

Wasn't trying to criticize, just making an observation as to the state of things as they were then so apologies if it came off that way.

I was fortunate that I started collecting (2005) when these were still available. The only one that was retired and it wasn't going for much was DD 32.

Brad
 
It's always struck me as odd that K&C would get this unit mixed up. The 3rd Division was in Italy at the time of D-Day. The US 4th Division, a nice colorful patch, was on Utah beach. I hate repainting a figure, but these guys were not in Europe, they were with the 45th division in Italy.

Thanks,

Matthew

If I'm not mistaken,Italy is situated in Europe!!!!!
 
The discussion involved the ETO as opposed to the MTO. Italy, while technically part of Europe, was in the MTO. -- Al

The 3rd Infantry Division started in the Med. but in mid-1944 the US VI Corps, with the 3rd, 36th and 45th Infantry Divisions and support units, was withdrawn from the Fifth US Army in Italy and assigned to the Seventh US Army. Seventh Army was the US arm of the Sixth Army Group and conducted the invasion of Southern France. They then fought up the Rhone Valley, through the Vosges Mtns and into Germany. VI Corps was one of the few units to serve in both Mediterranean and European theaters.

Gary B.
 
All true Gary. Even the the Japanese American unit, the 442 regiment fought from Italy to southern France and into Germany.

I'm just saying that they (3rd div) were not at Normandy. Anzio was just wrapping up on June 2, 1944.

Matthew
 
Good discussion-I remember being quarterbacked by fanboys when i mentioned the same about the Canadian D-Day (Normandy- juno beach)figures...didnt think they had the right gear on....from the helmet down. Response was brisk and cold.
I like my scout car!
Grant
 

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