Ducal Soldiers (2 Viewers)

[Clutch Cargo]

This lot I acquired keeps turning up all kinds of surprises. I have 7 Ducal Figures I am hoping someone can provide some information for. They are definately Ducal as marked on the bottom in one ofthe pictures.
There are 7 figures.

Can someone identify what variety they are, and if so, how many came in the set? I am wondering if this is the complete set.

Thank You.....Clutch Cargo

 

[ucla1967]

They appear to be a partial band from one of the British Guards regiments, although I can't tell which one since I can't see the sides of their bearskins. Ducal bands usually had 12 figures or sometimes more and typically sold for $120 in the 1990s. At one time, I had a special Princess of Wales/Anglican band with 47 figures in a two-tier box which I sold at the 2011 West Coaster for $475.

I have just one shelf of Ducal sets in my collection on display featuring the British Guards regiments. Since I took these photos, I have added the fifth missing regiment.

 

[Al Fisher]

Although the images aren't conducive to seeing the sides, it appears as if the bearskins don't have feathers (can't remember the correct name for the device) on the side. If none, then Scots Guards; if white, then Grenadier Guards; if red, then Coldstream; if blue, then Welsh. Can't remember Irish Guards . . . green and white? Each regiment also has different button arrangements but may not show on toy soldiers.

Bosun Al

 

[johnnybach]

Although the images aren't conducive to seeing the sides, it appears as if the bearskins don't have feathers (can't remember the correct name for the device) on the side. If none, then Scots Guards; if white, then Grenadier Guards; if red, then Coldstream; if blue, then Welsh. Can't remember Irish Guards . . . green and white? Each regiment also has different button arrangements but may not show on toy soldiers.

Bosun Al

Nearly correct Al;

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/castle/guards.html

 

[theBaron]

...feathers (can't remember the correct name for the device) on the side...

A hackle, if I remember correctly.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Blackbob]

One ventures into the arcane world of uniform and their associated traditions and terms with trepidation, however the usual name for the coloured "thing" on the side of the 4 guards regiments that have them, is a plume. See http://changing-guard.com/foot-guards.htm
A hackle is the feathers worn by Scottish soldiers on there Tam O Shanter (TOS), or in some cases their Glengarry, e.g.- the Cameronians, (Scottish Rifles) had a black hackle, the Black Watch a red one on their TOS.
Other regiments in the British Army ,many more before the amalgamations, wear plumes or hackles, but the latter are probably more associated with Scottish regiments.
Yours aye,
Douglas

 

[johnnybach]

A little more info, for you about Ducal Toy Soldiers.

The Ducal range was owned by Jack Duke - who with his wife Thelma, owned and operated the company. There was a web-site, once upon a time too.

www.fort-ducal.co.uk

I believe Jack and Thelma retired - along with their nice range of TS after 35 years in the business, around 2009. I particularly liked their range of Military Bands - especially some of the larger sets which frequently had twenty plus figures in their distinctive boxes.

They were part of the "New Toy Soldier" movement - which came in after the still British owned "Britains" finally ceased production of their Hollowcast range around 1966, because of Government changes to legislation regarding lead in children's toys - which was the final straw for producers.

Their production of figures was solid cast. If you pop the words Ducal Toy Soldiers into a search engine - such as Google Images - you can find lots more pics. of many of their products - along with boxes - to see if you can find your EXACT set. They are also frequently traded on e-bay, and other Auction sites - where you can also frequently find pics. too.

Incidentally, if you have any boxes and paper inserts for your soldiers - do keep them - as they can frequently enhance the value of the figures, should you ever wish to sell them.

Hope that helps - jb:salute::

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thank you so much. Very helpful. Here is a side picture. Looks exactly like one of the ones in johnnybach's picture.
Does this narrow it down?

 

[Obee]

I have painted a lot of DUCAL Castings for collectors, and there are some of the Scottish Bands

Drum Majors, Royal Highland Fusiliers, King's Own Scottish Borderers & Black Watch

Drum Majors Argyll & Sutherland, Cameron, and Seaforth Highlanders

Drum major & drummers, Gordon Highlanders

Tenor and Bass Drummers, Black Watch

Seaforth Highlanders, Drummers

I will also be painting the band of the Cameron Highlanders soon, but with Britains pipers, so maybe next year I'll show that too.

John

 

[johnnybach]

If there aren't any coloured plumes at all on the bearskin - then he is Scots Guards Drum Major - and is like the one in Mike's earlier pic. If you have any Ducal Pipers - he would be marching in front of them too (they would be wearing kilts - but in Royal Stuart Tartan - so not like any of Obee's - but again like in Mike's earlier pic), and THEN members of the Guards Military band ( which you also appear to have - if like the Drum Major, they have no plumes either) - would march behind them. If you have a Ducal box - check for any labels - such as "Scots Guards Band" - and then check on the number of tie-in points. If everything marries up - then you have a full set in a box. If you don't, you have figures only.

It's all a bit confusing to begin with - but if you persist - you will get there in the end jb

 

[Martin Tabony]

One ventures into the arcane world of uniform and their associated traditions and terms with trepidation, however the usual name for the coloured "thing" on the side of the 4 guards regiments that have them, is a plume. See http://changing-guard.com/foot-guards.htm
A hackle is the feathers worn by Scottish soldiers on there Tam O Shanter (TOS), or in some cases their Glengarry, e.g.- the Cameronians, (Scottish Rifles) had a black hackle, the Black Watch a red one on their TOS.
Other regiments in the British Army ,many more before the amalgamations, wear plumes or hackles, but the latter are probably more associated with Scottish regiments.
Yours aye,
Douglas

The Northumberland Fusiliers and now by extention the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers wear a red over white "hackle" or properly a hackle plume. Hackles are the rounded feathers from bird's neck (usually chicken) most other plumes use cut feathers.
Other ranks of the regiments of foot guards wear plumes of feather or horse hair.


Martin

 

[Martin Tabony]

If there aren't any coloured plumes at all on the bearskin - then he is Scots Guards Drum Major - and is like the one in Mike's earlier pic. If you have any Ducal Pipers - he would be marching in front of them too (they would be wearing kilts - but in Royal Stuart Tartan - so not like any of Obee's - but again like in Mike's earlier pic), and THEN members of the Guards Military band ( which you also appear to have - if like the Drum Major, they have no plumes either) - would march behind them. If you have a Ducal box - check for any labels - such as "Scots Guards Band" - and then check on the number of tie-in points. If everything marries up - then you have a full set in a box. If you don't, you have figures only.

It's all a bit confusing to begin with - but if you persist - you will get there in the end jb

I believe the Scots Guards pipes and drums follow the band.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

I believe the Scots Guards pipes and drums follow the band.

Martin

Yes they do M. I thought that was what I said - but having read through my earlier comments again - realise that I didn't actually say that. I must learn to put my thoughts down in a less convoluted way to avoid misunderstandings. I was really trying to find out whether Clutch Cargo had any loose pipers. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

Cheers - jb

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thank You so much. Very Interesting.

Unfortunately I do not have a box. Just the Drum Major and 6 musicians. I have attached 3 more pictures.
The bearskins do not have a mark on any of them, from the information you folks have previously supplied, I think that makes them all Scots Guards.

Now the question is as previously mentioned, are they 1 set or just loose ends??

Any ideas??

Thank You....Clutch Cargo

 

[ucla1967]

Thank You so much. Very Interesting.

Unfortunately I do not have a box. Just the Drum Major and 6 musicians. I have attached 3 more pictures.
The bearskins do not have a mark on any of them, from the information you folks have previously supplied, I think that makes them all Scots Guards.

Now the question is as previously mentioned, are they 1 set or just loose ends??

Any ideas??

Thank You....Clutch Cargo

As I said in post #2, I believe that this is a partial set. Ducal bands, usually came with 12 figures or sometimes more (e.g., Royal Scots Fusiliers Pipes & Drums with 20 and The President's Own US Marine Corps Band with 32). I am aware of two Ducal sets with fewer: #429A USMA West Point Drums & Bugles with 6 and #1010 US Air Force Pipes & Drums with 11. So---you have loose ends.