East of India Colonial Series (3 Viewers)

[PolarBear]

Officer: British Naval Brigade, Sudan 1884-84
Figure by East of India from their Colonial Series. Although sold for the Boxer Rebellion, the Naval Brigade took part in the Anglo-Sudan War.
My other passion besides the French & Indian War is the series of Colonial Wars fought as part of the contest for empire from the latter half of the 19th C through WWI. Watch for future developments of this part of my collection.

 

[marco55]

Randy,
I also share your passion for the colonial period 1880-1914.Would love to see someone do the Congo wars.Arab slave traders,cannibals,Belgian officers,Askaris,African armies,French British,Germans.It has it all.
Mark

 

[PolarBear]

Randy,
I also share your passion for the colonial period 1880-1914.Would love to see someone do the Congo wars.Arab slave traders,cannibals,Belgian officers,Askaris,African armies,French British,Germans.It has it all.
Mark

Mark

I think there must be some connection between interest in FIW and the Colonial Wars. I would suggest their exoticism as one factor. FIW was also, of course, both a Colonial and an Imperial conflict, with westerners fighting native forces.

What are your thoughts on this?

Randy

 

[Mister Dave]

Great shot Randy. I really like these guys and looked at them very closely in Chicago last year. Probably should have bought some because of a great discount being offered on purchases at the show, but had already kind of blown my budget by that point in time. Do you have more of the figures in this series yet?

Are the uniforms on these guys pretty comparable for service in Africa in the 1880's?

MD

 

[1879fanatic]

MD,

I had bought a couple sets of Naval Brigade for my.....Zulu stuff....what else? The Enfield .303 is too conspicuous on the guys, as well as the labelling on the ammo boxes. Mike

 

[Mister Dave]

Ah yes, good points you make there Mike. I recall being really impressed with the Nordenfelt set and the officer figures in particular, including the one Randy has pictured.

MD

 

[marco55]

Mark

I think there must be some connection between interest in FIW and the Colonial Wars. I would suggest their exoticism as one factor. FIW was also, of course, both a Colonial and an Imperial conflict, with westerners fighting native forces.

What are your thoughts on this?

Randy

I agree with you. The more exotic the more I like it.I've become more interested in the Belgian and German operations then the British and French.I think part of the lure is the courage of the Europeans going into unknown areas and surviving against the hostile natives, forbidding landscapes,extreme climate.The native of these regions were much tougher then most people think.I've read where the Belgian officers had to turn a blind eye as Their Askaris would eat their captives and sometimes they would mutiny and eat the Belgians.These guys had a lot more guts than I have.
Mark

 

[PolarBear]

Great shot Randy. I really like these guys and looked at them very closely in Chicago last year. Probably should have bought some because of a great discount being offered on purchases at the show, but had already kind of blown my budget by that point in time. Do you have more of the figures in this series yet?

Are the uniforms on these guys pretty comparable for service in Africa in the 1880's?

MD

Hi Dave

Here is a comparison of the East of India RN Brigade Uniforms with an illustration from the Osprey Campaign book on Khartoum. I guess the big question revolves around weapons. If the EOI figures have Enfield .303s then they would work better with Omdurman since the new rifle 1st appears in use in 1895 with the Britisn. I am puzzled at the moment about the Nordenfelt gun seeing service in the Sudan. Most texts reference the Gatling or Gardner being used by the RN there. But I have also seen reference to the Nordenfelt being used on the river boats in the Sudan. The confusion is increased by the fact that Nordenfelt and Maxim combined into one company. Any experts on these issues are most welcome to jump in. The officer I posted is the only EOI I have at the moment but am thinking of adding more if they will work for the Sudan.
Randy

 

[Mister Dave]

Oh yes, I love the color plates in that particular Osprey volume. I don't have access to my references right now, but I am trying to recall if there were any Naval personnel present at Omdurman. Up until the action at Atbara I think it was just the 4 battalions in the first British Bde. (Camerons, Seaforths, Lincolns, and Warwicks). I don't remember exactly who comprised the 2nd British Bde. at Omdurman (Grenadier Gds, I think a Bn. of the Rifle Bde?....cannot think of who else off the top)

Keep me posted on your findings. This is great stuff.

MD

 

[PolarBear]

Oh yes, I love the color plates in that particular Osprey volume. I don't have access to my references right now, but I am trying to recall if there were any Naval personnel present at Omdurman. Up until the action at Atbara I think it was just the 4 battalions in the first British Bde. (Camerons, Seaforths, Lincolns, and Warwicks). I don't remember exactly who comprised the 2nd British Bde. at Omdurman (Grenadier Gds, I think a Bn. of the Rifle Bde?....cannot think of who else off the top)

Keep me posted on your findings. This is great stuff.

MD

From Donald Featherstone's Osprey Omdurman 1898
shows the following British Naval Forces at the battle

Three 1889-class armored screw gunboats(each with 2 Nordenfelt guns, 1 q/f 12pdr, 1 howitzer, 4 maxim guns)
Three 1896 armored sternwheel gunbots (each with 1 q/f 12 pdr, 2 6pdrs, 4 maxim guns)
Four old-class armoured sternwheel gunbots( each with 1 12 pdr, 2 Maxim-Nordenfelts)

So the Naval brigade was there and with several Nordenfelt variants.

So perhaps one could use the EOI RN series in the Sudan?

Randy

 

[4th Hussar]

Just need to build a gunboat, as I recall the sailors did not go ashore but stayed on the river

 

[Mister Dave]

Oh, I forgot about the gunboats. I love the description of the scene the night before the battle commenced. The searchlights from the gunboats pulled up behind the troops along the river bank scanning the surrounding country side and so on. I still wonder if there were any naval personnel on the ground that day.

MD

Oops, 4th H. you just beat me to the post. You may have already answered our question.

MD

 

[PolarBear]

Just need to build a gunboat, as I recall the sailors did not go ashore but stayed on the river

Weren't the Nordenfelts on the boats a specially mounted version rather than on a wheels?

Anyhow if one did not put the set in a diorama you would at least have an example of a contemporary unit that served in the Sudan and it's equipment. You could do a scene of them training back in England prior to departure for the Middle East.

Didn't someone on TF build a river gunboat from the period?

Randy

 

[Mister Dave]

As Fletch once said, "God I admire you".

But seriously, this is a perfect example of your ability to look at figures from a refreshing and perhaps even unintended perspective, and present them in a very effective way for the rest of us to enjoy. At least that's been my experience. Bottom line: I am confident you will come up with something great for these guys.

MD

Weren't the Nordenfelts on the boats a specially mounted version rather than on a wheels?

Anyhow if one did not put the set in a diorama you would at least have an example of a contemporary unit that served in the Sudan and it's equipment. You could do a scene of them training back in England prior to departure for the Middle East.

Didn't someone on TF build a river gunboat from the period?

Randy

 

[jazzeum]

Weren't the Nordenfelts on the boats a specially mounted version rather than on a wheels?

Anyhow if one did not put the set in a diorama you would at least have an example of a contemporary unit that served in the Sudan and it's equipment. You could do a scene of them training back in England prior to departure for the Middle East.

Didn't someone on TF build a river gunboat from the period?

Randy

I believe Maddadicus built one, think he called it the HMS Treefrog.

 

[1879fanatic]

Mr

Here is an example and also proper arms for the period. The Nordenfeldlts had special mounts for the boats. Go ahead with EOI for this period
STEAM STERN PADDLE WHEEL RIVER GUNBOAT " EL FATEH'

Built at Wivenhoe Shipyard in 1896 by Forrestt & Co. Ltd., together with 2 sister ships for the Kitchener Nile expedition against the forces of the Mahdi in the Sudan.

DIMENSIONS:
Length on deck 140'
Beam: 24'
Draft: (when fully loaded with guns and stores) 2'6"

ARMAMENT:
1 x 12 pounder Q.F. Gun
2 x 6 pounder Q.F. guns
1 x Nordenfeldt Howitzer
2 x Batteries of Maxim guns
The vessel equipped with electricity and searchlight.

With her sisters, 'El Fateh' was built in sections of steel and fitted with water tight bulkheads. Shipped to Alexandria in sections, the ships were transported up the Nile to Assouan where they were reassembled for action.

'EL FATEH' was commanded on the Nile by Lt. David Beatty R.N.

 

[1879fanatic]

Mr

Sorry folks,
Here's the gunboat in all it's glory

 

[PolarBear]

Mike & Brad


Thank you both.

I do remember now that it was the HMS Treefrog.

Randy

 

[Mister Dave]

Oh yes, I love the color plates in that particular Osprey volume. I don't have access to my references right now, but I am trying to recall if there were any Naval personnel present at Omdurman. Up until the action at Atbara I think it was just the 4 battalions in the first British Bde. (Camerons, Seaforths, Lincolns, and Warwicks). I don't remember exactly who comprised the 2nd British Bde. at Omdurman (Grenadier Gds, I think a Bn. of the Rifle Bde?....cannot think of who else off the top)

Keep me posted on your findings. This is great stuff.

MD

I've had a quick check and found the other 2 Bn's in the 2nd British Bde. were 1st Northumberland Fusiliers and 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers. Also of course the 21st Lancers and Camel Corps and some British artillery and machine gun detachments present on the ground.

MD

 

[maddadicus]

Re: Mr

Sorry folks,
Here's the gunboat in all it's glory

I have hopes of building this, but have been frustrated in starting it, looking for a suitable wood hull or facsimilie, cheap, from an antique store or flea market..I do not have the skills to fabricate the hull from scratch..I know some Amish furniture makers and will see if they might make a hull for me...Michael