Equipment advice- Royal Scots Fusiliers Officer 1890. (1 Viewer)

[Hazebrouck]

Just after a bit of information regarding how a sword was attached to the belt of the figure below.

The kit is an older Scottish Soldiers kit of an Officer of the Royal Scots Fusiliers circa 1890. I believe that Scottish Soldiers became Clydecast and still produce the figure however there is no image of the completed figure.

The kit comes with a flattened copper strip to cut two straps from. There is a relief cut in the figure's belt just behind the pouch (binoculars case?) on the left side where I think the lower strap goes, but could someone tell me where the upper strap runs to from the scabbard?

Would a sword be worn that loose that it could easily touch the ground?



Thanks,

Scott

 

[Martin Tabony]

On that pattern of belt there is a "D" ring that sits over an half circle piece of leather for the short sling(front) and the long sling wraps around the belt at the back. The sword is carried loose because of various drills etc. If it gets in the way there's a sword hook ( "U" shaped brass rod)ust in front of the "D" ring. I try and find some pictures.

Martin

 

[Martin Tabony]

A picture speaks a thousand words. The hook is quite clear on the top belt. The other picture is the Irish Guards R.S.M. wearing his sord "hooked up".

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

You may already have this picture - but in case you don't - hope it helps a bit - jb

 

[johnnybach]

This one is of Royal Welsh Fusiliers - (note "flash" at back of the collar), but at least shows a little clearer how you may wish to connect your sword to suit the figure you have. I have used thin strips of metal/plastic material cut from blister pill packaging - with some success. Painted with a few coats of paint - does the trick nicely. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Last one - This one is of Scots Guards - looks like he's having a sarnie! - Heaven forbid!^&grin

Dog looks hopeful

Have a look at the sword belt details on both though - showing sword hooked up.

Hope these all help - nice figure you have there - good luck with him. jb

 

[Hazebrouck]

Thanks Trooper,

That image is indeed worth a thousand words.

John,

I ended up using masking tape rolled over itself for the scabbard straps (an old 1/35 trick for rifle slings).

Thanks for posting the image of the Royal Welch Fusilier with the 'Flash'. I would like to do a First World War officer figure with the 'Flash'. The movie version of Pat Barker's 'Regeneration' has the character playing Seigfried Sassoon wearing it. A very peculiar tradition that one!

Scott

 

[trooper]

Don't forget that the flash was only worn by officers and senior NCOs prior to 1900 when the custom was extended to all ranks. Trooper

 

[Martin Tabony]

If your interested, there was a discusion about the flash on VWF
http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5298&start=15

 

[johnnybach]

Sword looks fine now, with nice looking fall to it.

Note your interest in RWF Flash - an interesting and very distinctive quirk indeed.

Here's another old pic which shows it off a treat (circa 1911)

 

[johnnybach]

Hope I'm not guilty of wandering off topic too much Scott - but as you mentioned Seigfried Sassoon, who was a member of RWF in WWI, I remebered that I had a photo stored of him - along with his famous poem "The General" Do you know it? Anyway, this is him ............jb

 

[Hazebrouck]

Hope I'm not guilty of wandering off topic too much Scott - but as you mentioned Seigfried Sassoon, who was a member of RWF in WWI, I remebered that I had a photo stored of him - along with his famous poem "The General" Do you know it? Anyway, this is him ............jb


Johnny,

I wouldn't worry too much about wandering off topic, most tend to come back to the subject in hand. I'm familiar with 'The General'. I like Sassoon's poems as most are to the point and not too high brow. He was a brave man but became disillusioned with how the war was being waged and it shows in his poems. He wrote a poem called 'The Hero' which is worth searching out.

Thanks Martin for that link to the discussion on the origins of the 'flash'.

Returning to the subject matter. The figure I have and the illustrations provided in the thread show the sash being worn as well. Was the sash only for ceremonial purposes? The figure I am painting has the look of being dressed for a field exercise with the binoculars and garters.

Scott

 

[trooper]

Scott, the sash was symbolic of rank and was worn with most, but not all, orders of dress. Your figure is wearing the red serge undress frock normally worn on manoevres or field days. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Interestingly, the red sash was still ocassionaly worn by those on duties with Number Two uniform to this day. I can remember wearing one when undertaking "Duty Sergeant" - or "Guard Commander" duties, which lasted for a 24 hour period, for example - and that was as late as 1981. Was that the case in the RAF too, Trooper?

 

[Martin Tabony]

I believe the RAF wear a blue sash John Firth will no. Foot guards sergeants wear a sash in most semi-dress orders No2, drill etc. especially because it distiguishes a sergeant from a lance-sergeant. I've got one in the wardrobe from my time as a cadet instructor (badged R.R.F.)

Martin

 

[trooper]

Interestingly, the red sash was still ocassionaly worn by those on duties with Number Two uniform to this day. I can remember wearing one when undertaking "Duty Sergeant" - or "Guard Commander" duties, which lasted for a 24 hour period, for example - and that was as late as 1981. Was that the case in the RAF too, Trooper?

Not in general, Johnny, mainly worn by sergeants in the Royal Air Force Regiment. When I was in, many, many years ago,(Pontius was a pilate at the time) the sash was not worn by any Sergeant, Regiment or not. As I recall it first appeared sometime in the mid 60s.
In the army, except for the cavalry, the NCOs sash is worn as a badge of office and is worn in virtually all orders of dress. Exceptions are mess dress and combat camouflage. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Whilst browsing around - I found this rather nice old pic of RSF. As it shows an Officer hoding on to his sword - to stop it from dragging along - I thought you might like a look Scott. jb

 

[Hazebrouck]

Thanks all for clarification on the sash.

Johnny, that is a good image although I think it might be earlier than my figure and the tunic is of a dress type.

I think I may have to re-think the belt colour on my figure as I had in my mind it was white, but it looks like officers may have been gilt.

Anyway here is the work in progress- slow progress!

I'm just at the point of starting the tartan on the trews- psyching myself up.

This figure is 75mm and have to say nuch easier to paint than 54mm. Also took a few points from the Michigan Toy Soldier video on painting the Britains Master figure.

Scott

 

[Martin Tabony]

Scott, If you take a look at the line drawing I posted you'll see that the belt at the top is the gold Full Drees belt, the one below is the White undress version and the one you need.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Hi both - sorry for causing any possible confusion - not my intent - just found the pic by accident - knew you were doing one - so posted it. I like to have as many images as I can get hold of before painting - you seem to get to know the figure better then.

Yours is looking excellent so far Scott - love the way the sword falls. johnnybach^&grin