favourite K&C poll (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

Let's try to cool the rhetoric please.

 

[petebuster1]

Let's try to cool the rhetoric please.

some do get a little touchie dont they

 

[petebuster1]

I think overall K and C has a good balance between quality and price ,
No they are not perfect but imo they are a very high standard for the $$
and deliver a very good product that is attainable to a good number of collectors.
First legion also look very sharp , but they are catering to a slightly higher price point so its good to have the choice between the two price and style wise .

Yes agree totally wont be collecting as many FL due to price and will use both for dios

 

[jazzeum]

some do get a little touchie dont they

Well, as long as we (the collective we) don't engage in name calling, everything should be ok.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I think it is K&C's dramatically improved quality and the new matt market K&C created which allowed companies like First Legion to exist.

I would agree. As I have said many times, I think all collectors owe a great deal to K&C, then and now.

Now for your other comment about the "best" sculpting on figures. Again, I can only assume you are not a trained sculptor or artist, but I think before deciding which figure is "better" (always a matter opinion anyway) you might want to consider the following question: is Michelangelo's David a great sculpture? If your answer is "yes", take a closer look at it - you will notice that the hands and the face are a considerably larger scale than the rest of the David (just like the hands and heads on K&C figures). Why? Was Michelangelo drinking that day? No, its because the David, like our toy soldiers, was not meant to be looked at up close, it was meant to be displayed high up on the facade of a public building in Florence (our figures are meant to be looked at in display cases or on dioramas from a couple of feet away, not held up right next to our eyeballs). Trained sculptors are taught then when the sculpture of a human is meant to be viewed from a distance, the face and hands must be upscaled to permit the facial expression and the positioning of the hands to be visible to the viewer. That is why, if you are looking at K&C figures on a diorama or large display from a few feet away, you can get a better read as to what each figure is doing. Andy Neilson is a trained artist, and this is both intentional and effective. First Legion look great under a magnifying glass, but much of the effect of their sculpting is lost when viewed on a diorama or in masse. They are too close to connoisseur figures to be fully appreciated unless, like connoisseur figures, they are being viewed individually. For a collector like myself, who displays figures almost exclusively on large dioramas or in large showcases, First Legion figures won't give the most bang for your buck. First Legion is more effective for a collector who prefers displaying figures individually or in small vignettes of perhaps 12 or less figures. Both companies figures are excellent and I don't think a collector who buys either will be in any way disappointed, but I would be hard pressed to fault the sculpting on either. Just an art historian's perspective.

Well I cannot offer the perspective of an art historian, only that of a philosophy/english/poitical science major. I can accept that you don't mind the over-sized appendages but to compare these with Michelangelo's David is more than a stretch for me. The concept you note may well work for the larger scale statutes but I don't see it applying to 60mm scale figures and even if it did, it doesn't work for my perspective and I am not in the habit of looking at my collection under a magnifying glass. Let us just say that you and others don't find the out of scale parts and bulky bodies problematic and some of us do. Likewise, while First Legion figures may not look as good to you in dioramas, that is completely contrary to my own humble view. I have many First Legion figures and they are all displayed in large groups that I appreciate just fine, thank you. For me, the best bang for the buck is given by the best looking figures, individually or in whatever groups you chose. Just like art, beauty really is in the eye ......... and it seems that you and I behold differently. We do agree that anyone who buys either will not be disappointed since presumably they at least viewed photos of what they bought before they did. I know I would not be disappointed in the K&C Crusader and Saracens and I like their mounted Napoleonics and many things about their other figures, except as for those differences I noted. I certainly appreciate how much they have improved and I look forward to seeing them improve even more.

 

[petebuster1]

I would agree. As I have said many times, I think all collectors owe a great deal to K&C, then and now.


Well I cannot offer the perspective of an art historian, only that of a philosophy/english/poitical science major. I can accept that you don't mind the over-sized appendages but to compare these with Michelangelo's David is more than a stretch for me. The concept you note may well work for the larger scale statutes but I don't see it applying to 60mm scale figures and even if it did, it doesn't work for my perspective and I am not in the habit of looking at my collection under a magnifying glass. Let us just say that you and others don't find the out of scale parts and bulky bodies problematic and some of us do. Likewise, while First Legion figures may not look as good to you in dioramas, that is completely contrary to my own humble view. I have many First Legion figures and they are all displayed in large groups that I appreciate just fine, thank you. For me, the best bang for the buck is given by the best looking figures, individually or in whatever groups you chose. Just like art, beauty really is in the eye ......... and it seems that you and I behold differently. We do agree that anyone who buys either will not be disappointed since presumably they at least viewed photos of what they bought before they did. I know I would not be disappointed in the K&C Crusader and Saracens and I like their mounted Napoleonics and many things about their other figures, except as for those differences I noted. I certainly appreciate how much they have improved and I look forward to seeing them improve even more.

I Couldn't have put it better myself nice answer,i dread the reply i did wonder what Michelangelo's David has to do with toy soldiers,slighty off course i think.The big hands look silly and K&C have realised that hence the reason they are starting to produce them in scale.Nothing to do with dios.

 

[Louis Badolato]

First, to everyone, my appologies for losing my cool. I don't like information that I obtained through years of discussing this hobby with the owners and sculpters of every major toy soldier company in the process of researching a book on K&C "drivel". My thank you to my good friend Nasir for a calming PM.

Second, the Michelangelo reference came directly from a discussion with Andy Neilson, the owner of K&C, about 3 years ago, when I pointed out the hands being oversized. I have had a similar discussion with Rick Wang, of Figarti, who told me that he had measured the heads and hands of K&C figures, found they were scaled too large, but thought it was brilliant because K&C figures "looked right", while many of his own figures, which he knew were scaled correctly, looked "off" to him.

Anyone who doesn't believe the oversized face/hand reference, read any art history text's discussion of Michelangelo's David and you will see it is not something I or Andy cooked up. And if you don't buy the parallel between an 8 foot tall statue meant to be viewed from 80 feet in the air and a 60mm figure meant to be viewed from 2-3 feet away, then ignore it. But the fact of the matter is the Coldstream Guard figures a certain individual on this forum is using as an example of correct scaling have the same overscaled hands and heads, as do all of the WWII figures we all love. Don't take my word for it, ask Rick Wang, its his business to know these things.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Well Louis I never doubted your sources I simply must say it doesn't work for me. If it works for them, great I suppose. At least that tells me I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for a change in that approach from K&C. I also appreciate that all the K&C figures have the same relative appendage scale; certainly the Guards I have are the same as the KGL. I certainly do hope you know that I have every respect for your collection and your research. I just happen to not like this feature of the product, however well it may be justified.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Well Louis I never doubted your sources I simply must say it doesn't work for me. If it works for them, great I suppose. At least that tells me I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for a change in that approach from K&C. I also appreciate that all the K&C figures have the same relative appendage scale; certainly the Guards I have are the same as the KGL. I certainly do hope you know that I have every respect for your collection and your research. I just happen to not like this feature of the product, however well it may be justified.

And you are absolutely entitled not to prefer the figures to be that way. I brought up the issue with Andy because on the figures I noticed it I didn't like it. Andy's explanation made sense to me, but on some figures I still don't like it. However, as Rick pointed out, on many figures it does look right.

 

[jrsteel]

First Legion are definitely more connosieur figures than toy soldiers. I hope the other manufacturers don't try and follow First Legion's style or pretty soon all figures will be $50-60 a piece. I just started collecting K&C WW2 last year and I like getting a boxed set of soldiers for a reasonable price. I like collecting toy soldiers and hopefully K&C, Britains will stay toy soldiers.

 

[jazzeum]

I don't usually pay attention too much to the connoisseur figures either on ebay or when I go to shows but is $50 or so the going price for one of the Russian figures?

 

[jrsteel]

I don't usually pay attention too much to the connoisseur figures either on ebay or when I go to shows but is $50 or so the going price for one of the Russian figures?

I think the Russian figures are more like $100. First Legion is around $40 for a figure and $100 for a mounted figure. I'm just saying if the other companies tried going after this style with more and more realism, the price for figures will keep going up and up. Then to me, it's not toy soldiers any more.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I think the Russian figures are more like $100. First Legion is around $40 for a figure and $100 for a mounted figure. I'm just saying if the other companies tried going after this style with more and more realism, the price for figures will keep going up and up. Then to me, it's not toy soldiers any more.

Well I have never thought these were really "toys" at today's prices. To me a $25 54-60mm is hardly a toy by any measure I know. Just to be more precise, First Legion's mounted figures are currently $89 and K&C's are $72, again neither of these is a toy price to me. No one, including me, wants to pay more than they have to for anything, including these but I hope we can keep the trend toward more realistic figures. Russian figures are currently $85 to $120+ for foot and $140 to $180+ for mounted; I know this since I just bought a couple of Napoleonics to fill a gap in poses. All I can say is thanks to First Legion, I won't have to do that very often.

 

[APACHEJOL]

Well I have never thought these were really "toys" at today's prices. To me a $25 54-60mm is hardly a toy by any measure I know. Just to be more precise, First Legion's mounted figures are currently $89 and K&C's are $72, again neither of these is a toy price to me. No one, including me, wants to pay more than they have to for anything, including these but I hope we can keep the trend toward more realistic figures. Russian figures are currently $85 to $120+ for foot and $140 to $180+ for mounted; I know this since I just bought a couple of Napoleonics to fill a gap in poses. All I can say is thanks to First Legion, I won't have to do that very often.

Just a question where do you find mounted Russian figures for 140 to 180? I have rarely ever payed less than 500.00? Lowest I can remember is 350? Although I dont collect Naps do they run cheaper than lets say knights,mongols etc? If they do maybe I should start collecting Naps as the knights are killing me!

 

[lancer]

I'm suprised as a Brit on the low ratings on the civil war figures,thought that would might have been much higher.
Having been to many of the battlefields myself i have quite an interest,but haven't bought any of the figures as i'm trying to stick to Nap figs so are they poor figures or just not much interest?

I believe that many ACW collectors had already committed to Britains and Conte type scale long before KC released their new figures. I know when I collected my ACW figures, Britains offered the best and widest selection. I could not afford to change boats in midstream, thus I stay with Britains. Same with early WW1 figures. Britains was first and that is where my money is now committed. -- lancer

 

[DCN1898]

Just a question where do you find mounted Russian figures for 140 to 180? I have rarely ever payed less than 500.00? Lowest I can remember is 350? Although I dont collect Naps do they run cheaper than lets say knights,mongols etc? If they do maybe I should start collecting Naps as the knights are killing me!

Tinbay.com has Napoleonic Russian mounted figures for about 120.00. I have one of their Iniskilling Dragoons and some infantry figures. Tinbay does very nice work. On the down side, there is about a two month wait for your figure.

 

[Combat]

Just because they are "russian" doesn't necessarily mean they are connoisseur figures. Aeroart single figures run from $125 up. Mounted between $300-800. First Legion is a great bargain.

 

[APACHEJOL]

Just because they are "russian" doesn't necessarily mean they are connoisseur figures. Aeroart single figures run from $125 up. Mounted between $300-800. First Legion is a great bargain.

Thats true whenever I hear Russian figures I always think $$$$$.

 

[petebuster1]

First, to everyone, my appologies for losing my cool. I don't like information that I obtained through years of discussing this hobby with the owners and sculpters of every major toy soldier company in the process of researching a book on K&C "drivel". My thank you to my good friend Nasir for a calming PM.

Second, the Michelangelo reference came directly from a discussion with Andy Neilson, the owner of K&C, about 3 years ago, when I pointed out the hands being oversized. I have had a similar discussion with Rick Wang, of Figarti, who told me that he had measured the heads and hands of K&C figures, found they were scaled too large, but thought it was brilliant because K&C figures "looked right", while many of his own figures, which he knew were scaled correctly, looked "off" to him.

Anyone who doesn't believe the oversized face/hand reference, read any art history text's discussion of Michelangelo's David and you will see it is not something I or Andy cooked up. And if you don't buy the parallel between an 8 foot tall statue meant to be viewed from 80 feet in the air and a 60mm figure meant to be viewed from 2-3 feet away, then ignore it. But the fact of the matter is the Coldstream Guard figures a certain individual on this forum is using as an example of correct scaling have the same overscaled hands and heads, as do all of the WWII figures we all love. Don't take my word for it, ask Rick Wang, its his business to know these things.

Well if i may say having got the coldstream figures they do not have the large scale hands, maybe not perfect but far more in scale with the arms (all but 0.2 mm perhaps), i also have others with the larger hands and there is a quite obvious difference.Its there as black and white or should i say red & white, no words for it needed

 

[petebuster1]

Thats true whenever I hear Russian figures I always think $$$$$.

First legion may not be classed as connoisseur but certainly equal to it without the st petersburg price tags so i hope they stay that way.