Figure Stuffing (3 Viewers)

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

My old pal “Capitolron” wrote that he personally would prefer certain vehicles without additional figures that raise the price to a higher level.

Whilst I appreciate Ron’s point-of-view this particular set, FoB038, the advancing STUG passing the French Customs sign along with the dead “Poilu” was how I originally envisaged the whole scene. At US$129 I still think it’s great value compared to some other items that are on the market at present.

On prices generally, the costs are going up dramatically...raw materials...labour...transport...you name it — it’s going north. That said here at K&C we will still do our utmost to keep any increases to a minimum and, if and when possible, absorb them into our own costs by making our operation more efficient and even more cost effective.

However, collectors everywhere are demanding “better quality...more detail...more bang for their bucks”...and rightly so. But, there’s that word again, it comes at a price.

At the same time, as I said in another “thread” elsewhere on the Forum, collectors have a constant and never-ending stream of “wants...requests...and must have” for new items. Many companies, not just K&C, are trying our level best to fulfill many of these new “additions” but collectors must also realize that new sculpting...new masters...new production entails major investment by the producers. The funds required to provide for all this new “must-have” product comes from the profits of each company. In K&C’s case we’re happy and delighted to be, thanks to you guys, in the position to plough much of our profit back into new product which, I hope pleases you and helps grow and expand the hobby and business.

So far...so good. Anyway this is a long way round of saying that “more...more...more can sometimes cost more...more...more!”

We will though do our best to keep price hikes to a minimum. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Best wishes and...happy collecting!

Andy C.

 

[Rob]

Thanks for your post Andy,always interesting to hear what you think.I think a lot depends on each particular set,the Winter Tiger set with the extra figures was superb and the extra crew really added some depth.All depends on the subject i think.

Rob

 

[Eazy]

Thanks for the reply.
I do understand the issue of spiralling costs and better quality and I'm happy to continue paying for a quality product especially when it is an area i'm really interested in Eg the new FJs and the forthcoming Paras.

I'm still not sure of the Stug situation though. I appreciate that you as the designer envisioned a scene such as you mentioned but the collector may not like that scene or have a place for that scene. I know you can say say "Well buy or don't buy it" but in my opinion as a buyer i'd prefer you release dead figures and sign posts as seperate sets for those that want them rather than charging extra for pieces that may not be wanted.

Anyway all just my opinion.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Although I agree with Easy and Ron on this ocassion regarding the dead soldier in the new STUG set, it's still nice to receive responses from HK that explain the reason's why certain figures are released. Just seems to make our hobby more personal.
I'd still like to see a Q&C range from the Victorian era though......Only kidding. Maybe in time these will come along. Patience is a virtue.....So they say. I'll be tres happy when those Crimea sets turn up at the Post Office though.

Cheers
H

 

[Capitolron]

Andy

I appreciate your remarks - as you know there is no bigger advocate for K&C than me (even too much so at times )

Cost of production will rise and I understand that - which is why I pointed out limiting the additional figures to keep the price at a reasonible clip. You have so many great products coming out and so many of us are now collecting a wider ranges than we did before - cost has its toll on us.

I appreciate all your efforts in making this hobby a joyous one. King and Country is the leader of the pack - although there are many companies who are up and coming - IMO.

Andy - customer service is second to none with K&C - I hope you can appreciate our finanical concerns as we appreciate your business financial concerns as well.

Great Release this year my friend - You make me proud to be a King and Country Collector !!

Ron

 

[Louis Badolato]

I for one am actually quite pleased with the dead soldier. You can't have a realistic battle scene without some casualties, and Andy doesn't like to produce sets of just casualties, so putting a dead or wounded figure in a another set is a great way to "get real" as our friend Firebat would say.

 

[OldCelt]

There is always a debate I have when purchasing a set with a casualty. As most of my displays are geared toward a noncombat format. When I purchase this set I will probably leave the dead Frenchman in the box.
If I ever resell or trade this set then of course I can advertise mint in box FIGURE!!! it"s the Scot in me always looking for an angle!
I personally never saw it as "figure stuffing" as I have had the good fortune to see some of the advance sketches from Andy when attending the shows.
Although I do not have as deep a sporan as some an extra fig. or dio. piece has always added to the fun side of it for me. I guess you scratch my surface I'm still a twelve year old at heart. Give me more stuff!!
O.C.

 

[lenswerks]

It’s a great scene!

For me it is the sum of the pieces, the time and the effort you put into the design that make these kits great. The sign and fallen solider provides a lot of interest to the scene and builds nicely on prior FOB releases.

Thanks!

Donnie

 

[Capitolron]

Gentlemen

Just like in Washington - You have taken my words out of context. I am not speaking specifically about the new Stug III. Like Louis, I like it when Andy creates dead or wounded figures - because it gives realism to my dioramas.
Also it is hard to get Andy to produce those figures to begin with.

My point was made in general. If you look at the higher price vehicle that have come out - you will notice they have more figures. Some of these could have been fine without. So my statement is a general policy question not a hit on the Stug III - just to set the record straight.

Ron

 

[Rob]

Gentlemen

Just like in Washington - You have taken my words out of context. I am not speaking specifically about the new Stug III. Like Louis, I like it when Andy creates dead or wounded figures - because it gives realism to my dioramas.
Also it is hard to get Andy to produce those figures to begin with.

My point was made in general. If you look at the higher price vehicle that have come out - you will notice they have more figures. Some of these could have been fine without. So my statement is a general policy question not a hit on the Stug III - just to set the record straight.

Ron

Ron,are you asking us to accept that sometimes in Washington words are taken out of context?!That almost never happens in Westminster!

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

I'm with Ron on this as I'd prefer a reduced price rather than excess figures. It's true that I have no idea of the actual production cost of, for arguement sake, a random sign and dead French guy, but they must add something to the retail price. Personally I'd rather get a set with a minimal number of figures and enjoy a cut in price. For example even say $15 off the retail price could be the difference in some collectors buying a set or not.

 

[Eazy]

The price issue is certainly a factor and can make a real difference in the UK prices.
For instance i just bought the German T34. It had a great tank and 3 nice figures ( though one was standing holding binoculars! ) and it cost £95.95.
Maybe without the binoculars it would have cost £75 or £80.

Then a month or so later the stug gets released. Great tank, 2 nice crew, a dead guy and a sign. That is going to cost £110.95.

I think anything that goes through the £100 barrier has to be pretty darn special. To me the £100 mark is the one where i start thinking. "Hang on a sec is this really worth it?"

I can tell though that pretty soon it's going to be rare to get a tank from K&C that is under 3 figures.

I'm not moaning here guys so don't get me wrong I'm just stating how I have to look at it from a financial standpoint. It's easy to get carried away and overspend in this hobby and i think it would be worthwhile looking at reducing prices on vehicles by not including so many figures maybe or dioramic signs.

 

[jazzeum]

I'm in agreement with the views expressed here by Ron, Oz and Eazy. These things are getting bloody expensive and we're getting more product issued from manufacturers than ever before. Something has to give. If a set can be made more affordable by not including a sign and a dead soldier, then that's something that should be done. The sign and the dead soldier can be made available separately for those who want to get it.

As with anything, the only way to express your opinion (other than through this forum) is with your wallet. That's one message everybody always hears loud and clear. However, if the majority of collectors keep snapping up product, then the views expressed on this thread may be a minority.

 

[aujj65]

My point was made in general. If you look at the higher price vehicle that have come out - you will notice they have more figures. Some of these could have been fine without. So my statement is a general policy question not a hit on the Stug III - just to set the record straight.

Ron

Quite agree with you Ron, thats why I like and buy the NMA vehicles as I am more interested in just the tank rather than the extra figures etc. I would have liked to have added the AK Panzer II, but I am not interested in the 3 Italians that go with it at that price.

Jeff

 

[Capitolron]

Thank you Jeff

My point excately - the Panzer II - Great Tank ! - but, three Black Shirt Italian Figures? Who do they go with ?

If more Blackshirt Italians are coming out fine - great - these will go with them - and I will buy them. I thought it would have been better to produce more AK German Soldiers which could blend with other sets - or have none at all.

Most of us collect alot of the whole range - not pick piece by piece - so vehicles should come out by themselves or with an additional figure - then have special two or three set add ons for those who would like to complete the vision Andy has for the small scene.

King and Country is the best in the business (IMO). I love all Andy's stuff - even the figures I dont collect. The detail and workmanship is second to none. But, we really need to break these sets down so the collector can afford them. $25 or $30 USD does matter when you make purchase decisions.

Thats my two-cents.

Ron

 

[aujj65]

My point excately - the Panzer II - Great Tank ! - but, three Black Shirt Italian Figures? Who do they go with ?
Ron

One of the Italian tanks that John G keeps suggesting would make a great set IMO.

The French Char B tank that K&C have made in two versions only had one crew figure and the cost of these I belive were a lot less than the new Stug set.

Jeff

 

[OldCelt]

Thank you Jeff

My point excately - the Panzer II - Great Tank ! - but, three Black Shirt Italian Figures? Who do they go with ?

If more Blackshirt Italians are coming out fine - great - these will go with them - and I will buy them. I thought it would have been better to produce more AK German Soldiers which could blend with other sets - or have none at all.

Most of us collect alot of the whole range - not pick piece by piece - so vehicles should come out by themselves or with an additional figure - then have special two or three set add ons for those who would like to complete the vision Andy has for the small scene.

King and Country is the best in the business (IMO). I love all Andy's stuff - even the figures I dont collect. The detail and workmanship is second to none. But, we really need to break these sets down so the collector can afford them. $25 or $30 USD does matter when you make purchase decisions.

Thats my two-cents.

Ron

Ron's got a valid point on price point.
The options of add on sets is a good one but also a gamble. How many add on sets to various Britains products are out there gathering dust on various dealer shelves? I don't think that it would be as great a concern with K&C?!
However, how many of us would purchase a seperate dead Poilu and sign, after the vehicle?
The extra figures in the "Winter Tiger" almost doubled the price of the original vehicle piece..Yet Poof!! It's gone! Because it was strictly limited? I Don'know?
O.C.

 

[Big Gav]

I must be in the minority here as I thought the vehicle sets were better value than the figure sets. For example my next purchase is going to be Desert Transport Sdkfz Halftrack w/2 crew my local dealers sells retails it for $105 AUD and the figure set I purchased last week was the AK Attack set for $110AUD so with 2 full figures with the halftrack are valued to me at $55 so the halftrack is say $50 a bargain (I’d be flat out buying a model kit and paints/glue for that) I grabbed the Panzer II Tank Set also last week retailed here at $137 you could say that it has 4 figures as the commander is virtually a complete figure so figure value to me $110 Panzer II value $27 even better value. I will admit that the black shirts are a unusual choice but North Africa and even the AK was vastly Italian units so I found a space for them.
I would prefer an Italian figure set to have their hands in the air surrendering say 200 of them and 1 Australian with a dessert spoon guarding them.
Funny how I’m the opposite and shy away from figure sets as I feel the vehicles are better value due to the figures. Anyway I’ll let you guys sort it out I’m off to work.
Gav

 

[OzDigger]

Big Gav, I actually agree with you that the vehicle sets are better value and your comments bring another side to the discussion. However I suspect most of us would prefer figures with vehicles that are only relevant to the vehicle such as the normal crew. And even then I'd prefer say only three tank crew even if the usual was five as that would make the set a bit crowded and also increase the price where my main interest would be the tank.

That said I also collect the odd figure set such as the German Foot Patrol to enhance my dios. However I would much prefer to select the figures myself rather than have to suffer random figures, signs etc that Andy has included with a vehicle set. However I do agree that extras such as a camp fire and say four or five crew are attractive and suitable for limited editions such as the Winter Tiger set. But for the average vehicle/tank set I suggest two or three appropriate figures are all most collectors need.

As for the Panzer II set with Italian figures. I recall saying when the set was issued that the inclusion of the Italian figures are likely to discourage most collectors. No offense to our Italian members, but I just can't see where they would fit into my dio plan vision. It's well known that the less popular figure sets such as Italians, Indians, Russians, Australians (sad but true) don't sell as well as the Germans and US sets so why not make them in Limited Editions to attract more interest.

 

[sceic2]

FIGURE STUFFING - what a misnomer that is. All the pervious arguments (the debating form of argument thank you very much, not the piss’n contest type of argument) seem to miss the point. I look upon the figures as a bonus. Compare the price of K&C vehicles to others and the figures are, for me, a little bit more for my money. Plus, if you don’t like the figures – EBay’um it will make the value for the vehicle even better.