First Legion Sneak Peak - Russian Akhrstky Hussars (1 Viewer)

[Spitfrnd]

I don't think you can draw any conclusion from such a limited example, especially with a manufacturer name so new to ebay. Effectively you have a sample of 2, which is statistically and practically meaningless. Return to this question in a year and after you have more than 100 examples and it would say something about that year but not much more.

Also my comment of expensive was related to the hobby as a whole, not just First Legion. It has become a relatively expensive pursuit and even at K&C prices, it is not feasible to purchase everything that you would like in the abstract. My point was that based on quality alone, I would love to purchase these but given that they are not in my Napoleonic area of interest, I must refrain to allocate scarce dollars to those pieces that are.

 

[nmrocks]

Thanks to all of you for the kind words on the figures. We haven't set final pricing on them yet, but I imagine they'll be around $99.95-$109.95/figure.

Obserstoskar, as for French Hussars, it's possible. Something British will probably come first. Of course, we're releasing these Hussars in April as part of our Borodino range and we hope they do well as it would be a shame to have figures like this not sell well because of a bias towards British and French (which is so unfortunate as the Napoleonic Wars were about so much more than just the British...).

Paulo, I'm not sure I understand your question - "how much is now in order?" Could you please clarify and I'll do my best to answer for you.

Regards,

Matt

Those are really beautiful matt, can I trade in my K&C Empress dragoons for them???
Ray

 

[petebuster1]

I don't think you can draw any conclusion from such a limited example, especially with a manufacturer name so new to ebay. Effectively you have a sample of 2, which is statistically and practically meaningless. Return to this question in a year and after you have more than 100 examples and it would say something about that year but not much more.

Also my comment of expensive was related to the hobby as a whole, not just First Legion. It has become a relatively expensive pursuit and even at K&C prices, it is not feasible to purchase everything that you would like in the abstract. My point was that based on quality alone, I would love to purchase these but given that they are not in my Napoleonic area of interest, I must refrain to allocate scarce dollars to those pieces that are.

I wasn't coming to any conclusion simply stating a fact, (there's also another seller thats having trouble selling them as well) they may be new to ebay but not to collectors who buy on ebay,collectors know whats around ( after all i snapped them up pretty quick) and yes i dont mean just FL either. K&C and many others are also expensive and as you say this isn't a cheap hobby.All i'm saying is if you wait a while you will get these figures cheaper and i dont think they will hold their estimated value at the prices they are now.Even in a years time
How many people can afford to buy several figures at $109 over $1000 for a small cavalry unit let alone all the other figures unless you have a spare few thousand.
No matter what the quality if the money isn't there nor will be the buyers,TM had the french line figures at £28 they are now £30 and have now listed the British at £40 (work that out for a british square) plus in the space of a few days and it will be the same for whatever period of figures your into.I fully understand they have to make a profit but i dont think these high prices bode well for the hobby as a whole.

 

[VIRIATO]

I haven´t seen these figures live, but if quality is better, I am willing to have less but better, and save some room in the process. That said, for now I am applying this line of thought to:
a) Connoisseur figures;
b) Imperial Productions.

The best has a price.

Cheers,
Paulo

 

[petebuster1]

I haven´t seen these figures live, but if quality is better, I am willing to have less but better, and save some room in the process. That said, for now I am applying this line of thought to:
a) Connoisseur figures;
b) Imperial Productions.

The best has a price.

Cheers,
Paulo

Can assure you the quality is the best on the market, i would class these as connoisseur figures.
What about offering them in sets of British,French etc, say 6 or 10 figures at a fair price as well as individual figures ? i'm sure that would appeal more to many of us and would better than £40 or £80 a figure. A couple of retailers already do that with K&C figures

 

[Spitfrnd]

PB1, I am not following your math on this. Are not K&C and CS subject to the same duty and taxes? Whether or not they are, the $1000 referenced for a squad of 10 cavalry figures is not the incremental cost of a squad of K&C figures, quality aside. For example, if the FL figures cost 50% more, then the difference would be 5 FL figures versus 10 K&C figures. At 30% more, the difference would be 7 FL figures versus 10 K&C figures, etc. At any rate, the issue simply is quantity versus quality. I prefer quality.

As to the Ebay issue, my experience gives me no comfort that collector's are always following every listing or that those who are know what prices are appropriate. K&C has a well established history and hence brand recognition that not infrequently makes the secondary market prices for its figures baffling on a strict value basis. Comparing the many thousands of examples for them to the single digit resale of figures for a new company is just not meaningful in any way. It is not a reliable basis for any judgment of the future value of these figures. Now if someone really believes that we will be able to get the figures we want at some certain lower price by some date certain, then they should quote the premium and terms for that insurance, which will give some measure of their confidence interval.

 

[Andanna]

A couple of observations, if I may:

The FL figures are not Connaisseur figures, but Matt offers the service of higher quality painting if anybody is interested. A Connaisseur figure is around $100 to $150 now. Matt is around $35 to $45. Matt sells Fine Toy Soldiers at this price point and that is a great offering which was generally missing in the mass market.

The point that is made below is not lost on me: FL designs generally figures for formations. Matt and collectors therefore have to assume that you do not only buy one of each, but several of each to create the impression of a mass of soldiers that we all admire so much from the Napoleonic Wars. This is where the rub is: it gets expensive to have a large formation.

I am not aware of anybody collecting Conaisseur figures to really build a formation. I tried and there are generally just not enough matching ones (same unit, same paint job, same style).

Ultimately: You get what you pay for. No free lunch.

 

[King's Man]

Afford it or not I wil find the money to purchase new First Legion figures.

King's Man

 

[mk26gmls]

Another great set of figures to come Matt. They look awesome.

 

[petebuster1]

PB1, I am not following your math on this. Are not K&C and CS subject to the same duty and taxes? Whether or not they are, the $1000 referenced for a squad of 10 cavalry figures is not the incremental cost of a squad of K&C figures, quality aside. For example, if the FL figures cost 50% more, then the difference would be 5 FL figures versus 10 K&C figures. At 30% more, the difference would be 7 FL figures versus 10 K&C figures, etc. At any rate, the issue simply is quantity versus quality. I prefer quality.

As to the Ebay issue, my experience gives me no comfort that collector's are always following every listing or that those who are know what prices are appropriate. K&C has a well established history and hence brand recognition that not infrequently makes the secondary market prices for its figures baffling on a strict value basis. Comparing the many thousands of examples for them to the single digit resale of figures for a new company is just not meaningful in any way. It is not a reliable basis for any judgment of the future value of these figures. Now if someone really believes that we will be able to get the figures we want at some certain lower price by some date certain, then they should quote the premium and terms for that insurance, which will give some measure of their confidence interval.

i prefer quality as well but not at any price,with the first paragraph as ive said before realise retailers have to make profit but from £30 - £40 in 2 days? hardly going to encourage buyers is it? as for the rest of your paragraph i suppose it all depends on what the retailers have to fork out and what kind of profit margin the have in mind and also how well they will market the figures which we obviously dont know.
As for the ebay issue its purely an observation, i'm not predicting anything who knows how they will sell at the moment? but i do suspect they wont reach retail prices outside retailers.
I will certainly be collecting these but on a small scale i certainly dont have a bottomless pit as i suspect few do, which will effect the amount of figures they will sell.

 

[petebuster1]

A couple of observations, if I may:

The FL figures are not Connaisseur figures, but Matt offers the service of higher quality painting if anybody is interested. A Connaisseur figure is around $100 to $150 now. Matt is around $35 to $45. Matt sells Fine Toy Soldiers at this price point and that is a great offering which was generally missing in the mass market.

The point that is made below is not lost on me: FL designs generally figures for formations. Matt and collectors therefore have to assume that you do not only buy one of each, but several of each to create the impression of a mass of soldiers that we all admire so much from the Napoleonic Wars. This is where the rub is: it gets expensive to have a large formation.

I am not aware of anybody collecting Conaisseur figures to really build a formation. I tried and there are generally just not enough matching ones (same unit, same paint job, same style).

Ultimately: You get what you pay for. No free lunch.

and sometimes you can pay too much for what you get

 

[petebuster1]

A couple of observations, if I may:

The FL figures are not Connaisseur figures, but Matt offers the service of higher quality painting if anybody is interested. A Connaisseur figure is around $100 to $150 now. Matt is around $35 to $45. Matt sells Fine Toy Soldiers at this price point and that is a great offering which was generally missing in the mass market.

The point that is made below is not lost on me: FL designs generally figures for formations. Matt and collectors therefore have to assume that you do not only buy one of each, but several of each to create the impression of a mass of soldiers that we all admire so much from the Napoleonic Wars. This is where the rub is: it gets expensive to have a large formation.

I am not aware of anybody collecting Conaisseur figures to really build a formation. I tried and there are generally just not enough matching ones (same unit, same paint job, same style).

Ultimately: You get what you pay for. No free lunch.

After saying all previous $35-$45 is a fair price but imo not £40 and £80 for mounted

 

[Warrior]

Ok, I may live to regret jumping in here, but here goes.

Petebuster1, you keep going back to a 40.00 pound per figure price; the retail price FL charges off of their website here in the US is 35.00 for the French, 45.00 for the British. I as their US show representative also charge 35.00 and 45.00.

You keep going back to 40.00 pounds; THAT IS NOT THE RETAIL PRICE, OK? That is the price the Uk dealer has to charge thanks to your government whacking them over the head with VAT, etc.

So please stop going on and on about 40.00 pounds per figure as this is not the retail price, that works out to 56.00 USD.

Check the retail prices of Napoleonics through K & C Uk, again, you will find their prices are higher than US retailers, AGAIN, thanks to your government whacking them with VAT and other assorted fees.

You are comparing apples to hand grenades; if the true retail price were in fact 56.00 USD, then maybe you'd have a beef, but it is not, so you don't.

Ok?


And as far as FL not being considered connaisseur figures; the first show I had these at, one of the dealers out there selling connaisseur Russian figures walked by my tables, stopped, walked back, picked up a figure and said "How much this?" to which I replied "This is 35.00" to which he replied "No, not your cost, the retail price" and I said "35.00 IS the retail price" and at that moment, the color ran from his face as he charges 70.00 for Napoleonic foot figures and he has a MOB around his tables usually at the shows happily shelling out 70.00 per figure.

So there you go.

 

[petebuster1]

Ok, I may live to regret jumping in here, but here goes.

Petebuster1, you keep going back to a 40.00 pound per figure price; the retail price FL charges off of their website here in the US is 35.00 for the French, 45.00 for the British. I as their US show representative also charge 35.00 and 45.00.

You keep going back to 40.00 pounds; THAT IS NOT THE RETAIL PRICE, OK? That is the price the Uk dealer has to charge thanks to your government whacking them over the head with VAT, etc.

So please stop going on and on about 40.00 pounds per figure as this is not the retail price, that works out to 56.00 USD.

Check the retail prices of Napoleonics through K & C Uk, again, you will find their prices are higher than US retailers, AGAIN, thanks to your government whacking them with VAT and other assorted fees.

You are comparing apples to hand grenades; if the true retail price were in fact 56.00 USD, then maybe you'd have a beef, but it is not, so you don't.

Ok?


And as far as FL not being considered connaisseur figures; the first show I had these at, one of the dealers out there selling connaisseur Russian figures walked by my tables, stopped, walked back, picked up a figure and said "How much this?" to which I replied "This is 35.00" to which he replied "No, not your cost, the retail price" and I said "35.00 IS the retail price" and at that moment, the color ran from his face as he charges 70.00 for Napoleonic foot figures and he has a MOB around his tables usually at the shows happily shelling out 70.00 per figure.

So there you go.

It is over here beleive me most UK retailers would charge that anyway, but will stop going on about £40 but thats the reality. its fine for you, you get them at their retail price (US RETAIL)and you dont have to tell me about my A******e of a government which is why i've been hinting why U S sellers/retailers can help us purchase at your retail price instead of paying OTT here

so there you go

 

[VIRIATO]

45USD plus 35 or 34% customs taxes and VAT, yes, that's about it, about 60USD. These people's (Euro taxmen) message is clear: buy European or face the bill. Too bad some of the best are not European. So take that taxman: if it's better, maybe I'll prefer to face the bill(well, whenever I can).


Distraught European collector,
Paulo

 

[nasirkasmani]

45USD plus 35 or 34% customs taxes and VAT, yes, that's about it, about 60USD. These people's (Euro taxmen) message is clear: buy European or face the bill. Too bad some of the best are not European. So take that taxman: if it's better, maybe I'll prefer to face the bill(well, whenever I can).


Distraught European collector,
Paulo

Haha... Paulo.
As evil your taxmen appears to be, it does not hold a torch to my country's taxmen, i sincerely think.

my country's taxmen tax anything that slightly exceed their limit from anywhere mate.

not even if we bring Asian free trade items.

now thats evil.

 

[aujj65]

Haha... Paulo.
As evil your taxmen appears to be, it does not hold a torch to my country's taxmen, i sincerely think.

my country's taxmen tax anything that slightly exceed their limit from anywhere mate.

not even if we bring Asian free trade items.

now thats evil.

I want to know how these people sleep at night!

Jeff

 

[VIRIATO]

Haha... Paulo.
As evil your taxmen appears to be, it does not hold a torch to my country's taxmen, i sincerely think.

my country's taxmen tax anything that slightly exceed their limit from anywhere mate.

not even if we bring Asian free trade items.

now thats evil.

Hi,
Our limit in Portugal is 22€, including shipping. From there on it's 34%/35% on price and shipping value. How does that compare to your's?

Paulo

 

[VIRIATO]

I want to know how these people sleep at night!

Jeff

In my country, right now, they are programmed to suck all the money they can. If they don't sleep that's because they are not achieving their $$$$ goals. That's the dominant taxman line of thought here. A few people in the tax system still are a little human, though...


Paulo

 

[King's Man]

Matt, since you answered my other question about the new British cannon so quickly, I thought I would go ahead and ask another question. In an earlier posting in this thread you said and I quote "Of course, we're releasing these Hussars in April as part of our Borodino range".

My question is if these Russian Hussars are due to be released in April, when will they be posted on the website for pre-ordering?

You know how much I am looking forward to seeing more of the Napoleonic Russian line become available.

Thank you

King's Man