FL Armored Fighting Vehicles: Weathered, Battle-worn and Broken-down (1 Viewer)

Gebhard, I don't think this thread is about crticizing the FL Stug. It's about weathering in general. Personally I find it quite interesting.

I thought this thread was about Rob and I arguing about rust :eek::D

The weathering on the FL Stug looks good to me. Some collectors may want to add mud or intensify the oily seams that catch dirt, but that is not for everyone. The mufflers on the tanks in one of Frank's photos look rusty.

Terry
 
I thought this thread was about Rob and I arguing about rust :eek::D

The weathering on the FL Stug looks good to me. Some collectors may want to add mud or intensify the oily seams that catch dirt, but that is not for everyone. The mufflers on the tanks in one of Frank's photos look rusty.

Terry

:D

I think Terry is probably generally right in that there were no 'rust bucket ' Tanks,but I think there must have been the odd speck or two,and the slightest splash of slightly muddy water;)

I think the Stug from FL is very nicely painted,out of the two I think i prefer the Greyer version myself.

Rob
 
This thread was not to criticize the FL Sturmgeschuetz. It is weathered just fine for late summer/early fall urban warfare. If anyone wanted to use Matt's Sturmgeschuetz for a different scenario, the weathering might need adjustments to fit into such scenario (e.g.: winter in Stalingrad with snow). That should not be Matt's concern and I agree with him that he is in no position - and should not put himself into any such position - to offer various degrees of weathering to suit a scenario picked by the collector.

1) I do hope that the tires of the new 232 will show some dirt - the master just looked a little too fresh. But I guess that is also something that could be added later. But honestly, I think moderately dirty or dusty tires are a must for a product of this quality.

Having said that, I think his penchant for perfection will lead him to adjust the weathering if he chose a battle next that had a particular "look", like Kursk or the Ardennes.

2) On the subject of "battle-worn", I am not totally happy with Matt's response which in essence is: I am unwilling to lower my margin and/or increase the price of the product to add battle-damage to the models.

I guess I have to accept that response for now. Time for competition to come in and the customers to voice their views. I personally would not mind if a number of FL AFV's (not all) showed some battle damage.
 
Hi all ,
Being a tanker myself I would like to add a comment.

Great post.

And to those disappointed with the StuG weathering, keep in mind that the StuGIIIFs were new equipment for 1942, and had seen very little action prior to 9/42.

My personal vote for snow would be to never apply it to a model. It's easy enough to sprinkle on. There have been several recent pieces from Figart & K&C that would have been easy impulse buys for me had it not been for applied snow. If I have to spend time thinking about 'de-snowing' it...the impulse buy is gone.
 
1) I do hope that the tires of the new 232 will show some dirt - the master just looked a little too fresh. But I guess that is also something that could be added later. But honestly, I think moderately dirty or dusty tires are a must for a product of this quality.

This is a fair point and something I've been thinking about. We'll see though. As you point out, it's extremely easy to add this later if you prefer it. Then there is the issue of whether the dirt/dust should be tan (i.e. dirt) from the approach or gray (smashed concrete) from the city? My thinking is leave it black and let you decide later. ;)

Having said that, I think his penchant for perfection will lead him to adjust the weathering if he chose a battle next that had a particular "look", like Kursk or the Ardennes.

As I mentioned, we are playing with some ideas for advancing weathering. However, you've hit the nail on the head in that any advanced weathering will be done specific to a particular usage or battle that we're covering.

2) On the subject of "battle-worn", I am not totally happy with Matt's response which in essence is: I am unwilling to lower my margin and/or increase the price of the product to add battle-damage to the models.

Fair enough and I can understand why you aren't enamored with my response (especially when you phrase it that way!). I just hope you understand in return that first and foremost we have to run a business. If we can add additional detailing without raising costs or raising sale price, we certainly will. The fact of is, we just don't know yet. We haven't had a chance to try it!

Please try and remember that we are totally new to this and have thus far created one vehicle in two variants so we have extremely little experience to draw on. For whatever reason, we also seem to have done this under a microscope of scrutiny. Personally, I think we've done an outstanding job considering we've never done this before. However, I also think we can do better. Once we get a few more vehicles under our belt, you'll see a continous cycle of improvement much the same as we've shown with our figures. We just need more time and experience and the only way to get it is to create more vehicles, figure out what works and what doesn't, what customers like and what they don't, and then incorporate that experience into future models. In our extremely brief history as a company I feel we've already shown that we operate with a philosophy of continous innovation and constantly push the boundaries of what can be achieved. You should expect nothing less from our AFV's.

Regards,

Matt
First Legion
 
Matt,

You raise a good point. FL is new to the WWII game. I think we tend to forget this since the initial releases were so good. I have seen positive evolution in the figures already and I'm sure the vehicles will follow a similar path.
 
Matt,

You raise a good point. FL is new to the WWII game. I think we tend to forget this since the initial releases were so good. I have seen positive evolution in the figures already and I'm sure the vehicles will follow a similar path.


Second to that, well said Frank.
 
Matt,

You raise a good point. FL is new to the WWII game. I think we tend to forget this since the initial releases were so good. I have seen positive evolution in the figures already and I'm sure the vehicles will follow a similar path.
That certainly has been the pattern for the Napoleonic figures as well. It is indeed hard to be mindful of just how young this company is since its efforts in that time span have been so truly impressive.:cool:
 
Please try and remember that we are totally new to this and have thus far created one vehicle in two variants so we have extremely little experience to draw on. For whatever reason, we also seem to have done this under a microscope of scrutiny. Personally, I think we've done an outstanding job considering we've never done this before. However, I also think we can do better. Once we get a few more vehicles under our belt, you'll see a continuous cycle of improvement much the same as we've shown with our figures. We just need more time and experience and the only way to get it is to create more vehicles, figure out what works and what doesn't, what customers like and what they don't, and then incorporate that experience into future models. In our extremely brief history as a company I feel we've already shown that we operate with a philosophy of continuous innovation and constantly push the boundaries of what can be achieved. You should expect nothing less from our AFV's.First Legion

This is a good point and that is why I was dismayed of the indication this thread was to Criticize existing FL models. It is rather to reflect FL customers' thinking on future models. I have no critical word on the Sturmgeschuetz, but looking forward, where do we as collectors and consumers see room for improvement that we are willing to pay for. Better discuss it in advance than having Matt design an AFV that does not sell (well) - not that that is ever conceivable. ;)
 
Although, I have not yet recieved the FL Stug .....the photos I have seen on the forum seem to indicate that they are weathered adequately.....There will always be varying opinions on the degree of weathering which is proper and acceptable for a battle regarding the season in which that battle was fought.....My view is that some weathering is needed for FL AFV's so as to "maintain realism" which is why I collect FL Stalingrad...... HOWEVER.....Increased costs of weathering and customizing of AFV's from FL is not in the best interests of most collectors (nor manufacturers) who may already be experiencing the difficult economy of the times......I hope that good judgement is excercised in this regard.......As I said in an earlier post of this thread.....If you want more then moderate weathering either learn to do it yourself (by practicing on a 1:35 scale model) or send the FL product to an after market customizing expert......Just my view.....
 
This is a fair point and something I've been thinking about. We'll see though. As you point out, it's extremely easy to add this later if you prefer it. Then there is the issue of whether the dirt/dust should be tan (i.e. dirt) from the approach or gray (smashed concrete) from the city? My thinking is leave it black and let you decide later. ;)



As I mentioned, we are playing with some ideas for advancing weathering. However, you've hit the nail on the head in that any advanced weathering will be done specific to a particular usage or battle that we're covering.




Fair enough and I can understand why you aren't enamored with my response (especially when you phrase it that way!). I just hope you understand in return that first and foremost we have to run a business. If we can add additional detailing without raising costs or raising sale price, we certainly will. The fact of is, we just don't know yet. We haven't had a chance to try it!

Please try and remember that we are totally new to this and have thus far created one vehicle in two variants so we have extremely little experience to draw on. For whatever reason, we also seem to have done this under a microscope of scrutiny. Personally, I think we've done an outstanding job considering we've never done this before. However, I also think we can do better. Once we get a few more vehicles under our belt, you'll see a continous cycle of improvement much the same as we've shown with our figures. We just need more time and experience and the only way to get it is to create more vehicles, figure out what works and what doesn't, what customers like and what they don't, and then incorporate that experience into future models. In our extremely brief history as a company I feel we've already shown that we operate with a philosophy of continous innovation and constantly push the boundaries of what can be achieved. You should expect nothing less from our AFV's.

Regards,

Matt
First Legion

If you see a vehicle for sale and it's supposed to have more weathering due to certain circumstances, all you have to do is weather it yourself. I do it all the time and if you ever seen any of BATTLE SCENE PRODUCTIONS promotional dioramas you will see how we weatherize the un-weathered.:D
Whatever the historical gripe is,Matt still makes a superb product.;)
Regards, Nick
 

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