FoB022 (1 Viewer)

[Guy]

Through E-bay I found the K&C ref. FoB022 which I bought.
When I opened the box I noticed that the shoulder/ sleeve insignia are missing on the figurine. Can somebody tell me to which reg /Div this guy belongs ?
With anticipated thanks
Guy{sm4}

 

[Guy]

Come along guys, help please
What unit insignia is the original figure FoB022 wearing on its sleeve ??? It is the only figure I have so far from this series, so I have no possibility to compare with other FOB references;
guy{sm5}

 

[notascoldasbastogne]

Come along guys, help please
What unit insignia is the original figure FoB022 wearing on its sleeve ??? It is the only figure I have so far from this series, so I have no possibility to compare with other FOB references;
guy{sm5}

Check out pics for fob025, fob026, fob029. all have the same insignia as fob022.
it is a red X with a unit ID underneath. Hope that helps :salute::

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The symbol appears to be the Roman Numeral XI or IX for 9 or 11 depending if it is read up or down. However, I checked my references on unit symbols and formation signs and could not find it. The 9th Division was Scottish and used the Thistle as a symbol. The 11th Division was never formed.

So unless someone can come up with a better answer, I would have to guess the symbol represents the 9th Neilson Irregulars who were on a beer tasting tour of the Low Countries when war broke out. {sm4}

Terry

 

[Guy]

The symbol appears to be the Roman Numeral XI or IX for 9 or 11 depending if it is read up or down. However, I checked my references on unit symbols and formation signs and could not find it. The 9th Division was Scottish and used the Thistle as a symbol. The 11th Division was never formed.

So unless someone can come up with a better answer, I would have to guess the symbol represents the 9th Neilson Irregulars who were on a beer tasting tour of the Low Countries when war broke out. {sm4}

Terry

Thank you Terry for your wise words and remark.I think you are right . The beer chosen as the best in the world is brewed in Westvleteren in Belgium,not so far from Dunkirk.
guy{sm3}

 

[noli-poli]

Thank you Terry for your wise words and remark.I think you are right . The beer chosen as the best in the world is brewed in Westvleteren in Belgium,not so far from Dunkirk.
guy{sm3}

Attached is a photo of the original figure. Hope this helps. It has a red X and a red horizontal line(both w/ thin black outline)

 

[Guy]

Thanks for all your help.
I looked in all my ref books but could not find this shoulder patch matching with any unit in the BEF.
Any Idea about the identification of this insignia ?
guy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Thanks for all your help.
I looked in all my ref books but could not find this shoulder patch matching with any unit in the BEF.
Any Idea about the identification of this insignia ?
guy

I couldn't find that patch on any British WWII unit be it infantry, armoured, artillery, divisions, brigades, BEF or anything else. I think it is just a made up symbol. The only thing I have seen with any resemblance is a 10th Corps H.Q. patch which is a red square with a 10 in white arranged vertically.

Terry

 

[Arnhemjim]

Re: FoB022 Insignia

Based upon a reasonably extensive reference library of British Army insignia, including Cole, Rossignoli, Chapppell, Davis, TM 30-410, and several more if you will please take my word for it. If not I’ll compile a comprehensive bibliography for the dubious. The top Red ‘X’ is a ‘fantasy’ division/formation sign, i.e. non-existent, and the horizontal red bar is a distinguishing mark, in this case correctly, Infantry. Another case of artistic license. Another way to check is to research the infantry divisions/independent brigades included in the Order of Battle of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) as it was deployed to France in 1939-40. Per Wikipedia those units were as listed below. Only divisions and Independent brigades were authorized formation badges to the best of my knowledge. A comprehensive review of the insignia of the units listed has shown NO FORMATION BADGE IN THE SHAPE OF A RED ‘X’.

British Expeditionary Force
1st Infantry Division
1st (Guards) Infantry Brigade
2nd Infantry Brigade
3rd Infantry Brigade
2nd Infantry Division
4th Infantry Brigade
5th Infantry Brigade
6th Infantry Brigade
48th (South Midland) Infantry Division
143rd Infantry Brigade
144th Infantry Brigade
145th Infantry Brigade
3rd Infantry Division
7th Guards' Brigade
8th Infantry Brigade
9th Infantry Brigade
4th Infantry Division
10th Infantry Brigade
11th Infantry Brigade
12th Infantry Brigade
50th (Northumbrian) Motor Infantry Division
150th Infantry Brigade
151st Infantry Brigade
25th Infantry Brigade
42nd (East Lancashire) Infantry Division
125th Infantry Brigade
126th Infantry Brigade
127th Infantry Brigade
44th (Home Counties) Infantry Division
131st Infantry Brigade
132nd Infantry Brigade
133rd Infantry Brigade

Saar Force
51st (Highland) Infantry Division
152nd Infantry Brigade
153rd Infantry Brigade
154th Infantry Brigade

Units in Training
12th (Eastern) Infantry Division
35th Infantry Brigade
36th Infantry Brigade
37th Infantry Brigade
23rd (Northumbrian) Infantry Division
69th Infantry Brigade
70th Infantry Brigade
46th (North Midland) Infantry Division
137th Infantry Brigade
138th Infantry Brigade
139th Infantry Brigade

Units arriving in France after 10 May 1940
30th Infantry Brigade
20th Independent Infantry Brigade (Guards)

Second Expeditionary Force
155th Infantry Brigade
156th Infantry Brigade
157th Infantry Brigade
1st Canadian Infantry Brigade

Arnhem Jim

 

[Guy]

Re: FoB022 Insignia

Jim
Thanks for these very explicative words and info.
I thought this badge was a fake. I am preparing a dio of 3 British infantry men waiting for the next bus to Dunkirk in the seaside resort of La Panne along the Belgian Coast; I will have to repaint their shoulder insignia.Will transform them into 3 men belonging to the 50th Northumbrian Div or one of the Guards Brigades who were defending the city of La Panne for the duration of the evacuation.
Thanks again
Guy{sm4}

 

[King & Country]

FOB22 Unit Identification

Hi Treefroggers,

Whilst I hate to disagree with anyone… the “X” division is no fantasy… It can be traced back to two books… Brian L. Davis “British Army Uniforms & Insignia of World War Two” and… Osprey’s “British Battle Insignia (2) 1939- 1945”.

The “X” actually represents the Cross of St. Andrew (Scotland’s patron saint )… Although not official, many units in the 51st Highland Division wore this shoulder patch. I attach a photo and illustration… As a side note the St. Andrew’s Cross was also worn during the First World War by the 51st Division.

Hope this clarifies the issue.

Gordon C. Neilson

 

[Guy]

Re: FOB22 Unit Identification

Gordon,
Thanks a million for this info and photographs. I now only have to find out where the 51st Highland Infantry div fought during the last days of may 1940 to finish my Dunkirk dio
Again, many thanks
Guy

 

[Guy]

Re: FOB22 Unit Identification

Gordon,
Thanks a million for this info and photographs. I now only have to find out where the 51st Highland Infantry div fought during the last days of may 1940 to finish my Dunkirk dio
Again, many thanks
Guy

Unfortunately I will have to change the 51st Highland Div shoulder patch, because they never were in the vicinity of Dunkirk . They made a stand further to the South and were cut of by the Germans and forced to surrender. So my 51st Highland Infantry figurines will become members of the 50th Northumbrian Infantry Div who defended De Panne( Belgian seaside resort and evactuation beach) during the last days of the Dunkirk evacuation.
but many thanks anyway, appreciate your effort to reply
guy
guy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I see Gordon - the obscure "unofficial" shoulder patch :rolleyes2:^&grin

There is the official patch from the 51st Highland Division.



I suppose the "X" was for those soldiers who couldn't write HD when asked what division they were in {sm3}

Terry

 

[Guy]

I see Gordon - the obscure "unofficial" shoulder patch :rolleyes2:^&grin

There is the official patch from the 51st Highland Division.

View attachment 68954

I suppose the "X" was for those soldiers who couldn't write HD when asked what division they were in {sm3}

Terry

They were called the Highway decorators ( HD)because of the roadsigns they put down along the road during their advance ;
guy{sm4}

 

[Arnhemjim]

Gordon,
Profuse apologies, even though in Chappell the insignia is brown and different configuration, the one in Davis, albeit black and white photography, could be correct if it's red. I specifically went through both books and missed both in an attempt to find the insignia. Mia Culpa! Much better research job than the breast plates of the Gordon Highlanders at Waterloo, or the Polish Paras brevets at Driel (Arnhem). I'm certain everyone appreciates “incredible attention to historical detail and military accuracy”. Must come back to haunt you, every so often. Andy and you both have my total empathy, as I now know how it feels to try, and not get it exactly right each and every time.
Regards,
Arnhem Jim

 

[King & Country]

Fob22

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the prompt response… nice to know none of us (me included) is perfect!

Gordon C. Neilson

 

[King & Country]

Re : 51st Highland Division

Hi Guy,

The 51st fought their last battles in France in June 1940 in and around St. Valery in the North of that country.

One of Andy and mine’s uncles…Piper Alec Taylor of the Gordon Highlanders was captured there and spent almost the next 5 years in POW camps in Poland and Germany.

Hope this info helps.

Gordon C. Neilson

 

[Guy]

Re: Re : 51st Highland Division

Hi Guy,

The 51st fought their last battles in France in June 1940 in and around St. Valery in the North of that country.

One of Andy and mine’s uncles…Piper Alec Taylor of the Gordon Highlanders was captured there and spent almost the next 5 years in POW camps in Poland and Germany.

Hope this info helps.

Gordon C. Neilson

Dear Gordon,
Thanks for that little bit of extra and personal info. But I new already the outcome of the 51st Highlanders' fight . Did your uncle also participate in the 450km march towards the end of the war when the Germans moved the prisoners from one camp to another.The 51st Highlander Div was part of it .
Thanks to your info I am now able to finish my Dunkirk dio in an accurate way, based on historical facts. I will have to change the shoulder patches on the figurines though. It will depict 3 British infantry men waiting for the next bus at a bus stop in the small town of Adinkerke near the seaside resort of La Panne on the French/Belgian border only a few miles away from the embarcation beaches.Civilians are not waiting for the next bus but are fleeing in the direction of the border.
Thanks again
Guy:wink2: