French Grenadiers - Bearskin hats or Tricorns? You decide... (2 Viewers)

[Maj. Duncan Heyward]

Hi Everyone, just back from a visit to John's workshop and WOW, are we in for some treats this year, I can confirm fantastic releases for us old time French Indian War Collectors, great additions to Leuthen, WW1 in all its guises and some super buildings and terrain, without giving away too much, please feel welcome to take a peek in the Intel and Reconnaissance section on our JJDUK website. More images will be added later.

But today a more important matter, the future of a John Jenkins figure is in our hands, John showed me the pictured French Grenadier figures, from the defenders at Ticonderoga, one with Tricorn and one with a Bearskin. John explained to me that he has been asked many times for bearskinned grenadiers, but that they were not there, I am hoping Fraxinius might chip in here with the history?! please help.
So he has created this figure, but he is unsure if too release it, I am sure we all appreciate that John needs to sell a certain number to cover his costs, he will be following this thread with interest, please try to keep it on topic and we'd love to know yes or no?!

YOU DECIDE!

 

[mikemiller1955]

maybe John could issue the bearskin Grenadier as a Club set...

 

[chalklands]

Both please!!!!

Pete

 

[Tebear98]

Both please!!!!

Pete

I like them both. I have been mixing JJD figures from BOM and POA sets.

I can be a special club figure or set.

Gary L.

 

[Ruggles]

I am going to buy either but would prefer the bearskin. {sm4}

 

[The Military Workshop]

Both versions look good. Great face.

 

[Fraxinus]

As it regards uniforms, Military Uniforms In Canada 1665 -1670 (Summers, Chartrand and illustrated by Marrion) is one of the principle research sources for the French and Indian War. The illustrations are beautiful and very large. Two French grenadiers are depicted, one from De Bearn (Tricorn Hat) and one from La Sarre (cloth fatigue cap). I will check further, but I see no mention of bearskin mitre cap in this volume.

In Armies of the Seven Years War (Digby Smith, 2012). French Infantry: "Tricorns were worn, laced in the button colour, with a black cockade. It was not until late in the war that grenadiers began to adopt the fur mite cap". However, he also writes (page 72):

Grenadiers de France Nr 40 (I believe this is a distinct regiment).

Raised on 15 February 1749 from 48 companies of disbanded units. Four brigades, each with twelve companies. Disbanded 4 August 1771. Blue coat and breeches, red collar edged white, blue cuffs with white lace buttonholes, red lapels and waistcoat, both with white lace buttonholes, white buttons. Tthe unit wore a black bearskin with red tassel bag and tassel.

After page 160, there is a series of colour plates. On about the 9th plate, there is a graphical depiction of numerous French regiments. Luckily, there is a very small depiction of the mite cap for the regiment Grenadiers de France. Bear cap in front, but attached to a cloth red fatigue cap with red tassel.

Kronoskaf indicates that "towards 1759, bearskins became increasingly common among grenadiers".

As for my vote: My preference is for Tricorns. I think the figure simply looks better in a Tricorn. I have always thought Frontline's Royal Roussillon was a more appealing figure than their offering in bearskin mitre caps. The mitre cap on John's figure does not have that problem, but the solid black mitre does make me nervous.

As to what I would offer as a manufacturer, I might see what European battles I could sell "bearskin mitre" for - there maybe a decent number.

Regardless of that research, I would factor in the "snazzy". Right now, leaning towards the Tricorn, but not upset with the bearskin mitre in the slightest. But being greedy, likely to vote both.

Old post from years ago:

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...by-the-42nd-at-Ticonderoga&highlight=bearskin

 

[Obee]

Both versions look good. Great face.

I agree with Brett, and especially the facial expressions.

I'd buy both,

John

 

[Combat]

Per the Osprey quote in the older thread linked above, I'm not sure it's possible to entirely preclude the use of the bearskin hat. So if it's a matter of historical accuracy that shouldn't stop John from making it.

According to Osprey's book on Louis XV's Army:

"Officially, French grenadiers had tricorns like the rest of the men, but bearskin caps became increasingly popular during the 1750's - some army registers begin to mention them and they appeared more and more in artwork."

 

[Fraxinus]

Grenadier = Moustache, large "Grenade" pouch with King's Stamp (functional ammo pouch), and brass hilted sabre instead of standard straight-bladed short sword of the regular infantry. In Military Uniforms in Canada, the La Sarre grenadier is illustrated as having switched out the sabre for a hatchet.

As previously noted by others, the facial expressions are exceptional.

 

[45thdiv]

First off, I voted for both. There are a lot of collectors that will purchase both. There is that "cool" factor with the bear skin hat.

I see some folks have said to make it a collector set. This might be good, but not if there is just one figure. One pose.

I buy these to make a unit of figures from several poses. I like officers, musicians, and such.

I like the idea of looking into perhaps another European battle field to see if they would work.

So, if we go the club set route, then I would like to see several poses released or rather offered together. Not needing to be released all together. Just offered so that there is a complete unit, the stagger the releases. I would then commit to 12-14 figures, including the officers and such.

Matthew

 

[45thdiv]

James,

Just read your intel section. Oh yeah, marching and firing Prussian figures! Sent John an email.

And, yes we do on these bear skin grenadiers.

Matthew

 

[RISORGIMENTO]

Without doubt I like and I will buy both,
I'd like to see four figures marching sets for both the versions in two different poses. The best way to have soon a thick marching line.
Officers, flags, fifers and drummers welcome too of course!!!
Carlo

 

[Maj. Duncan Heyward]

Without doubt I like and I will buy both,
I'd like to see four figures marching sets for both the versions in two different poses. The best way to have soon a thick marching line.
Officers, flags, fifers and drummers welcome too of course!!!
Carlo

Totally agree Carlo....
John mentioned he's never done a marching band before... Although I don't think in relation to FIW, he was just chatting.

 

[RISORGIMENTO]

James, for pipes and drums I did not mean a whole marching band but single figures at the front of attacking troops, I refer to the famous Barry Lyndon sequence at the sound of swinging 'British Grenadiers'...fantastic!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cIjTodmfk0

 

[Fraxinus]

I am not exactly sure of several things:

(1) Is the pose a marching figure or simple standing. My "guess" is the pose is a standing figure, but not formal.

(2) More importantly, is this bearskin poll for a single figure, a clubset or something like a clubset, or a release of a decent number of grenadier figures?

Can Major Duncan (the gentleman from Virginia), please elaborate, thanks!!!

 

[45thdiv]

The poll, I hope, is for a good number of figures. Six or so poses. I am fine with a club set offering, but knowing that I can get all the poses for a unit of figures for a nice display.

Matthew

 

[Dragoon]

I think I'd only be interested in grenadiers with the tricorn hats. They are historically accurate for the French troops serving in N. America, and I personally like the look of the tricorn better than the plain fronted bear skin hat of that period.

I really like John's figures with moustaches (the Gordons in the Sudan series are my favorites), so I'm happy to see he will be doing French grenadiers for Ticonderoga.

 

[45thdiv]

I too like the moustache on the figures. I think John uses his own mustache as an example when sculpting.

I do understand those that want to be accurate with their displays. And I think it is safe to say that John will release the tricorn version no matter the results of this poll. I will buy them. I like the bear skin hat as well. It looks good and I am hoping for more than one pose.

Say, I just remembered that John does not have a moustache. I must have been thinking of the D-Day code, "John has a long mustache."

Matthew

 

[Maj. Duncan Heyward]

Hi Fraxinus,

Sorry, I don't know anymore....
I am quite sure we will get the Tricorn Grenadier, the other one John is asking for opinion.
I was shocked to learn that a lot of figures don't make the cut, even though they have been completed!
I guess this could be one of them.
As a collector, I'd like one (or more! ) of each, and it galls me to discover some figures never get made,
I guess this is a good thing, and ensures John's quality of work and product....