Gettysburg or Valley Forge Show? (2 Viewers)

Russell

Sergeant
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
703
A few questions: A few years back I went to the Valley Forge Show and was pleased with the size of the show. I'm coming from Montreal, Canada and so whether or not it's a big show (number of tables and dealers) is important to me. So the questions are, how big will these two shows be, and what are their exact dates? Maybe I'll be able to go to two for one long drive. Thanks
 
A few questions: A few years back I went to the Valley Forge Show and was pleased with the size of the show. I'm coming from Montreal, Canada and so whether or not it's a big show (number of tables and dealers) is important to me. So the questions are, how big will these two shows be, and what are their exact dates? Maybe I'll be able to go to two for one long drive. Thanks

This is the first year for the Gettysburg show - so my guess is that it will be much smaller. The GB show is a one-day event on April 27. The show formerly known as "Valley Forge" (this year in Delaware) is that same weekend. George (Warrior) may have more info since I believe he is going to both. My guess is that the drive between the shows is about three hours(?). Not exactly sure where in Delaware it is held.
 
Another incentive to visit GB in April:

Artifacts placed in new Battlefield Museum

Artifact displays are being installed at the new $103 million battlefield Visitor Center and Museum in Gettysburg — one of the final phases in a project that dates back to the mid-1990s.

The complex, located along the 1100 block of the Baltimore Pike just south of Gettysburg, is scheduled to open April 14.

“This is a whole new way to experience Gettysburg,” Gettysburg National Military Park spokeswoman Katie Lawhon said Thursday morning.

Civil War artifacts are currently being transferred from the present-day GNMP visitor center, located along the Taneytown Road, to the new complex. Crews installed exhibits Thursday morning in three museum galleries dedicated to the Battle of Gettysburg, fought July 1-3 in 1863.

“The idea is to show visitors what it was like to march through Pickett’s Charge,” explained GNMP museum specialist Paul Shevchuk. “All of the objects that we’re putting into these three exhibits are in the Henry Spangler collection. The Henry Spangler property is a 152 acre farm that was in the middle of Pickett’s Charge. The artifacts that visitors will see in these three museum kiosks were artillery projectiles found at the farm in early July 1863.”

About 24,000 square feet in the new museum is dedicated to artifact exhibits, nearly three times the size of the artifact gallery at the current park facility. There are 12 museum exhibits in the new museum, each costing about $5 million.

“There will be less actual artifacts on display, but the understanding we’ll be able to bring to our visitors will be greatly enhanced. We’re going to have a story-line museum — we don’t have that now,” GNMP Supt. Dr. John A. Latschar explained during a previous interview. “Our current museum was originally established as a collectors’ museum: you see rows and rows of exhibit cases, with hundreds of rifles and muskets. If you’re interested in the evolution of the rifled musket, as an instrument of war, our current museum is a great interest because we have one of about every single model ever made. But they don’t tell a story. In our new museum, where the main purpose is to give people an understanding of the significance of the Gettysburg campaign within the context and causes of the Civil War, we’re using our artifacts to illustrate a story. In a story-line museum, you don’t line up rows and rows of muskets.”

The park has one of the largest National Park Service artifact collections in the country. Not all battlefield visitor centers in the United States have museums, which is one of the main reasons that the project — which has ballooned from an original estimate of $40 million — has such a high price-tag. The park, with its new 139,000 square-foot complex, is able to store its entire collection under one roof, and does not have to rely on interim storage facilities, as it is doing now.

“We have one million objects, including maps, photos, documents, clothing and paper,” said Lawhon.

The project is being managed by the Gettysburg Foundation, a non-profit group that’s also raising funds to pay for the project, and plans to operate the complex for 20 years until the debt — about $15 million has been borrowed — is paid off. Presently, the group has secured more than $100 million.

Nearly two million people tour the battlefield every year, and about 1.3 million visit the GNMP visitor center. The facility, however, which was built as a private residence and added to more than a dozen times over the past seven decades, is only big enough to accommodate 700,000 people.

An official grand-reopening isn’t being held until October, when a $16 million restoration of the timeworn Cyclorama painting concludes. Conservators are bringing the artwork to life within its new state-of-the-art gallery, which is able to display the 377-foot long by 42-foot high painting in its original hyperbolic shape.

The outdated facilities, built atop battleground where soldiers fought and died during the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg, are planned to be razed within the next 24 months.
 
Russell,
Combat is right, this is the first time the show is being held in Gettysburg and will be a smaller show. As far as Valley Forge, like he mentioned, it is moving to a large convention center in Delaware and I am not sure how many dealers are planning on attending the event, so I have no idea if the new show will be any good or not.

Gettysburg is about three hours from the Delaware show and I am attending both as a dealer, so if you need further information, let me know...........


Regards,
George
 
The VF forge hasn't been as good as in the past although I did make some great finds there last year. I was planning on going but I'm off that week so I may not make it.
 
My gut feeling is the Delaware show is going to be a massive bomb and that show will fade off into the sunset as it has been dying a slow death over the past couple of years, while the Gettysburg show will be a huge hit, requiring a move to a larger facility next year..................
 
The Gettysburg show is brand-new this year, and was conceived by a couple of dealers who didn't want to follow the MFCA show to Delaware, so they took the opportunity to try a new show.

Disclosure: I am a member of the MFCA, past treasurer and I run the admissions area each year.

We were forced to move because the convention center had become too expensive for us to rent. I don't know about the promoters of other shows, such as OTSN, or Bill Lango, or the group that puts on the West Coaster, or even Norman Joplin and other promoters in the UK, but our organization is a non-profit, and we only make enough to help cover the costs--help cover the costs, not cover the costs.

We have been looking, since my last year as treasurer, 2001, for a new venue, because the costs have risen on the average around 10% each year. We looked for other sites in Pennsylvania, such as the Fort Washington convention center. the Adam's Mark hotel and the armory in Philly, and some of the local colleges and universities. None had the same facilities, and that for even more money than we were currently paying. The Chase Center in Wilmington affords us the opportunity to have a better location for a better price, than Scanticon in Valley Forge did.

To that, Delaware has the advantage of no taxes, especially an iterant merchant license fee ($45) such as Lower Merion Township charged and which we had to collect from each vendor.

For patrons, the Chase Center is only another 20 miles south on I-95, and people coming from the north may find it easier than the confusing navigation in and around King of Prussia. Those coming from the west, if they travelled the PA turnpike, may find it easier to get off at Downingtown and follow Rte 1 south into Delaware.

There are hotels within walking distance of the Chase Center; most of us are staying at the Double Tree suites.

As to the observation that the show is dying off, well, actually, some of our long-time vendors have died off, more politely, passed away. Others are alive, but no longer making ling trips. We've had around 100 vendors registered for the past 5 years; that's fewer than the 110 in around 2000-2001, but still a decent number. Some buy a table but don't make it; there were some last year who were prevented at the last minute.

Remember, too, that our show is not just a market, but we also sponsor the figure exhibition. I hope that anyone who has visited the show in the past was able to take in the exhibition and see the work that was on display.

Anyway, sorry to get on the soap box, but I'm glad of the opportunity to give you a look behind the curtain, so you see that we're not a commercial enterprise, a Wal-Mart for toy soldier enthusiasts, but members of a long-established club of toy soldier collectors (and painters), who do this for love of the hobby.

Thanks, and I hope to see you in Wilmington at the end of April.

If you live within distance of Philly, I also invite you to visit our monthly meetings. They're held on the first Friday of every month, at Artisan's Hall on Roosevelt Blvd in NE Philadelphia. We hold our meetings jointly with the local IPMS chapter, the Delaware Valley Scale Modelers, to there is always plenty to see and talk about with other hobbyists. (The meetings adjourn to the Rhawn Pub around the corner--Guiness on tap).

Prosit!
Brad
 
Brad, Thank you for your complete reply and honestly you didn't sound like someone on a soap box to me; just informative. If my wife and I do go, I'll try to find you to thank you in person for the information. I do like the toy soldiers, but the contact with other collectors is really the best part be it at shows or even on the net like this. Thanks, Russell
 
Thank you, Russell! I just hear people gripe too often, when there's often another side to the story.

As to fellowship at the shows: Our hospitality suite has become quite popular over the years, to the point where we expanded it from 1 night to 2, and we usually go until 2-3 in the morning. When it's time to get up Saturday morning and open the gates, I remember that I'm not a 20-year-old college kid anymore, and why I don't do that regularly these days :)

Happy hunting at either and any of the shows you visit!

Prost!
Brad
 
Baron,
FWIW, you mentioned in your post the organizers of the Gettysburg show are not coming to Delaware and are trying a show in Gettysburg instead.

This is not true; Wayne Stevens, Carl Hogermeyer and John Stengle are the promoters of the show, and all three will be at Delaware, so your information is not correct.

Secondly, regarding your show, MFCA has not done much in the way of promoting the show as far as I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong as I'm all ears, that is why less and less dealers are going, dealers passing on has had zero effect on OTSN, Hackensack,etc. It is your job as the club to spend the money to advertise your show. Are there ads in PM Magazine or TS&MF about your show; if so, let me know as I subscribe to both and have not seen an ad in either. Myself personally, I have sent out over 100 emails to customers telling them I am going to the show, most did not even know the date or where it was being held, I had to fill them in, this is not a good situation.

The show is close to Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington; you should be drawing a huge crowd there, yet you don't. The attendance has continually dropped at your show. Personally, I don't think it can support two days, one is more than enough.

Also, I have tried to find out the lay of the land there, ie, can I set up the night before, where exactly are my tables, etc, etc, to no avail. All the other shows I do, these types of questions get answered....................
 
Thanks for the update, Warrior, as of our March meeting, our vendor chairman had said he hadn't heard from Carl. Hillestad won't be there, but he stopped coming a couple of years ago. Mike Russo said he would not follow us to Wilmington.

You are also correct that we could advertise more. I've advocated placing ads in the toy soldier magazines, not just the painters' mags. Unfortunately, the money is not there to blanket them. We've had members do it out-of-pocket, including me, and so, it's often a decision to choose which mag to pick. For example the prices even for half-page ads in the monthly Toy Soldier & Model Figure are relatively high, compared to the quarterlyOld Toy Soldier.

I'll say the same thing I said to Jim Hillestad, when he ran down his list of things that we could do: Anyone who'd like to join and work with us is welcome, especially since we're a non-profit club of toy soldier and military model enthusiasts, not a commercial event promotion company. We won't turn any help away.

Having said that, I'll take this opportunity to say thank-you to Ed Gries, who has done a lot to put word out, at his shows. And to Norman Joplin, who has been very kind, over at Old Toy Soldier.
 
And actually, Warrior, thanks for the update on the vendors, I will make it a point to talk to them personally at the show, on behalf of the show committee.

Prosit!
Brad
 
Thanks for the repsonse. I'm willing to help any way I can, I've got a stake in the show too. Maybe Carl won't be doing both shows in the same weekend, guess I was given false information.

For the record, the Valley Forge show was number four for me out of the twenty six I attend per year profitwise, with only OTSN, Hackensack and Secaucus ahead of it, so I'd hate to see things change there. I am a bit worrried with the move since most of my customers are from the New Jersey area and I've gotten mixed answers as to whether all will attend. One said anything involving going over the Delaware River Bridge kills it for me, he said it's just too far. Not sure if it is true, just his .02.

As I pointed out, I email my customers telling them I am going; in the future, flyers to hand out at shows in the Spring and to put in the packages I send out would be great to have.

And you also said, Eddie has done alot to promote your show; Eddie is a great guy and a great promoter, I do well at all of his shows.

I wish you guys mucho success with the show.........
 
Thanks, Warrior, I look forward to meeting you at the show, too. We've probably seen each other many times, but it will be nice to put names to faces.

One big plus for me, and maybe for others, is that Iron Hill's brewpub is right down the street from the Chase Center.

Prosit!
Brad
 
Jazz,
My brother lives in Jersey, and he goes to the Valley Forge show every year, and the last few years he's noticed a decline. GB may be the better choice.
 
Based on the number of my customers who have notified me that they are attending the Gettysburg show and in speaking with some of the other dealers who are saying the same thing, I hope they have good crowd control at the show as it could be a gang buster of an event, can't wait for this one to be honest.

Plus, I get to spend an extra day in Gettysburg afterward, what else can a guy ask for (well, something else actually, but we'll settle for a day in Gettysburg...............)
 
I had a chance to visit the new Gettysburg vistor center for first time today. It opened on Monday replacing the dreary old building they had been in for decades. Wow!!! Anyone who plans to come for the show next week is in for a big treat. It has everything including a large bookstore, restaurant, theatre, displays, research facilities etc. All brand spanking new. Very impressive - almost renews my faith in government to see so many kids there today. Plus the weather is fantastic and the trees are blooming here like nobodies business - I'm not on the board of tourism just a great time to visit if you are coming for the show.
 
I dunno- the jury is still out for me- guess we'll have to wait and see how everything goes. I just have this nagging thought in the back of my mind that all I'm going to hear all day long is:

"That piece has been retired or that piece is limited edition". It's started getting to the point where you can't even look at tables anymore as they are crowded with that stupid word "RETIRED"- I swear I wish someone would retire the word RETIRED

I dunno, my point is I just have this feeling that with all these dealers (I hear between 100-160) that they are going to capitalize on it being held in GBurg and think that they are going to sucker in the "tourist" to buy their stuff and everything is going to be marked up slightly. As I have said before, don't expect CC to pay more than retail it won't happen, if I missed it before OOPS-O for me.

Guess we'll just have to see how it shakes out. I won't be there till probably noon, maybe noon-thirty. I just don't feel like wrestling with a bunch of toy soldier fans on a Sunday afternoon.
 
Chris,
Don't sound so enthusiastic about the show........:p. Toy soldier shows don't shake out like that, there are really no "tourist" types who drop in and those that do haggle over a 5.00 bag of cheap plastic Hong Kong Marx knockoffs and end up breaking some K & C figures because they don't know how to handle the merchandise :mad:.

Dealers don't raise prices for shows; if anything, the ham and egger part time flea market types lower prices as the day goes on in a panic as they try to cover the 60.00 table fee :rolleyes:, I've seen it many times before.

Not sure what you mean by the retired tag on stuff; if I or any of the nine other K & C dealers that sound like will be attending the show have retired sets, there you go, they are retired, I can't unretire them :D.

This show should be a good time, chill out and go with the flow and stop with all the negative waves :cool:; besides, I've got some nice K & C stuff for you that you already shelled out the moula for, remember?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top