HB New Sets (1 Viewer)
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Ana Donzino
First Sergeant
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- Apr 25, 2005
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Hello,
My name is Daniel Donzino and I'm the artistic director of Honour Bound. This note is to clarify some collectors doubts regarding size and scale of the Honour Bound figures. It's interesting to see the concern that collecotrs show about the scale and size that figures would have in real life.
When you decide to begin making a line of figures the first question you ask yourself is as an artistic director is which is the stetic that the line will have. That is: Will the figures be tall and thin? Will they have a dramatic character or they won't show the war horrors? Will they be displayed on a table as plastic soldiers, or will they have realistic dramatism? And there is where the decisions begin.
When you sculpt an antropomorphic figure the sculpture has to follow the stetic canons set by the great masters centuries ago, as the athlete canon, the heroe one, the ordinary man one, etc. meaning that the figures will differ much if we want to portrait a super hero, a weight lifter or a heavy weight boxer.
When we chose the canon for our figures we thought on an average height of 1,75m - 1,80m, small head, fine factions (but whose faces would show the rigor of combat) strong but thin body. This would match the recruiting parameterswho'd look for training young men between 20 and 30 years old, medium size, who after training would be sent to a combat marathon of more than 5 years. That is that the overweight possibilities are almost none unless he was a cook or any other sedentary asignement.
That's why it's difficult to find soldiers overweighted or old (except for the volksturm or young volunteers), or whose faces don't show the war rigor.
Another subject that I can't avoid explaining is the way in which metal soldiers are made. The molds used to cast metal are made of silicone cauch, material that enlarges while you cast in it. Each figure that you cast in it is slightly larger than the previous one, until the mold gets cold again.
That is that, if you could measure each piece you'd notice a difference between them up to 2 mm. That's something that can't be avoided. All companies have this physic process in the casting stage.
This size difference taken to 1:1 scale would mean a 3cm difference between figures, menaning they'd be 1,80m to 1,83m in real life.
On the other side, as it has wisely posted here, there are different human biotypes, and the diversity of volumes and heights is what brings realism to a collection.
Another subject are the weapons. For the reasons that I already mentioned it is very difficult to keep the exact size of the weapons and accessories. The plastic soldier collectors know that these kind of figures can keep the real size. Their molding system allow them to do that, but for technical reasons, the clothes wrinkles and movement must remain in a conical shape or they wouldn't be able to take figures off the molds. These usually makes unreal uniforms looks. You need to compare them to real pictures instead of the plates that come with plastic kits. Each system has its pros and cons.
During these last 3 years our line has changed many things to follow the majority of the collectors tastes. Our hand and faces turned more pink because you liked them that way. Now, which is our concept about this matter? Most Germans have light brown hair because they are indo-european. Their hair is not very light as the nordics, and their skin is light and pinkinsh. But if they'd be as soldiers were, 5 years in campaign, their exposition to sun would result in tan faces and hands. Snow troops too, due to snow sun reflection. Not to speak about the desert ones. So it comes to a difficult decision when at the time of choosing the flesh tone to use. Would they be tanned? Pinkish? Pale toned?
At the end the most important thing is how collectors prefer them, since they are the ones who will buy the figures. And as we try to have everyone happy (as much as possible) we intend to adapt our style to what you, collectors prefer for your collections. That's why I'd like to post a few questions that would help us have a clearer idea of what the majority likes.
1) Do you think that we should match the figure volumes to all the other figures in this market? That is, should we make them bigger?
2) Should the figures be 60mm up to the head or up to their eyes?
3) Should they be measured with or without the base?
4) Should a 4 figures set have different height sizes showing different biotypes, or should be all be the same height?
5) Should weapons keep a close to reality size or slightly larger, as most other figures of this market?
6) Do you think our uniform tones are correct?
Thank you for your time and help,
Daniel Donzino
My name is Daniel Donzino and I'm the artistic director of Honour Bound. This note is to clarify some collectors doubts regarding size and scale of the Honour Bound figures. It's interesting to see the concern that collecotrs show about the scale and size that figures would have in real life.
When you decide to begin making a line of figures the first question you ask yourself is as an artistic director is which is the stetic that the line will have. That is: Will the figures be tall and thin? Will they have a dramatic character or they won't show the war horrors? Will they be displayed on a table as plastic soldiers, or will they have realistic dramatism? And there is where the decisions begin.
When you sculpt an antropomorphic figure the sculpture has to follow the stetic canons set by the great masters centuries ago, as the athlete canon, the heroe one, the ordinary man one, etc. meaning that the figures will differ much if we want to portrait a super hero, a weight lifter or a heavy weight boxer.
When we chose the canon for our figures we thought on an average height of 1,75m - 1,80m, small head, fine factions (but whose faces would show the rigor of combat) strong but thin body. This would match the recruiting parameterswho'd look for training young men between 20 and 30 years old, medium size, who after training would be sent to a combat marathon of more than 5 years. That is that the overweight possibilities are almost none unless he was a cook or any other sedentary asignement.
That's why it's difficult to find soldiers overweighted or old (except for the volksturm or young volunteers), or whose faces don't show the war rigor.
Another subject that I can't avoid explaining is the way in which metal soldiers are made. The molds used to cast metal are made of silicone cauch, material that enlarges while you cast in it. Each figure that you cast in it is slightly larger than the previous one, until the mold gets cold again.
That is that, if you could measure each piece you'd notice a difference between them up to 2 mm. That's something that can't be avoided. All companies have this physic process in the casting stage.
This size difference taken to 1:1 scale would mean a 3cm difference between figures, menaning they'd be 1,80m to 1,83m in real life.
On the other side, as it has wisely posted here, there are different human biotypes, and the diversity of volumes and heights is what brings realism to a collection.
Another subject are the weapons. For the reasons that I already mentioned it is very difficult to keep the exact size of the weapons and accessories. The plastic soldier collectors know that these kind of figures can keep the real size. Their molding system allow them to do that, but for technical reasons, the clothes wrinkles and movement must remain in a conical shape or they wouldn't be able to take figures off the molds. These usually makes unreal uniforms looks. You need to compare them to real pictures instead of the plates that come with plastic kits. Each system has its pros and cons.
During these last 3 years our line has changed many things to follow the majority of the collectors tastes. Our hand and faces turned more pink because you liked them that way. Now, which is our concept about this matter? Most Germans have light brown hair because they are indo-european. Their hair is not very light as the nordics, and their skin is light and pinkinsh. But if they'd be as soldiers were, 5 years in campaign, their exposition to sun would result in tan faces and hands. Snow troops too, due to snow sun reflection. Not to speak about the desert ones. So it comes to a difficult decision when at the time of choosing the flesh tone to use. Would they be tanned? Pinkish? Pale toned?
At the end the most important thing is how collectors prefer them, since they are the ones who will buy the figures. And as we try to have everyone happy (as much as possible) we intend to adapt our style to what you, collectors prefer for your collections. That's why I'd like to post a few questions that would help us have a clearer idea of what the majority likes.
1) Do you think that we should match the figure volumes to all the other figures in this market? That is, should we make them bigger?
2) Should the figures be 60mm up to the head or up to their eyes?
3) Should they be measured with or without the base?
4) Should a 4 figures set have different height sizes showing different biotypes, or should be all be the same height?
5) Should weapons keep a close to reality size or slightly larger, as most other figures of this market?
6) Do you think our uniform tones are correct?
Thank you for your time and help,
Daniel Donzino
Daniel,
Since your number 1 competitor is in my book K&C, I think that you have to get your soldiers as close as possible as their offering otherwise you're going to lose all the K&C loyal customers... I have hundreds of WW2 figures from K&C and I'm the kind of guy who will never buy any K&C soldiers or any other figures from other companies if there are not exactly the same size as the other men in my collection... because I want to be able to display all those guys together and make some nice dioramas.. Yes it's true that humans come in different sizes.. some are taller.. some are skinner... BUT they don't come in different scales... it's one thing to have a guy 5'7 standing next to another who's 6' but that doesn't mean that the guy who is 5'7 should be skinner than the other... in fact, in real life, it's quite the opposite.. tall people are usually slender... small guys are fatter... now how come when coming to our hobby, people think the opposite ??
keep up the good work !
Alex
Since your number 1 competitor is in my book K&C, I think that you have to get your soldiers as close as possible as their offering otherwise you're going to lose all the K&C loyal customers... I have hundreds of WW2 figures from K&C and I'm the kind of guy who will never buy any K&C soldiers or any other figures from other companies if there are not exactly the same size as the other men in my collection... because I want to be able to display all those guys together and make some nice dioramas.. Yes it's true that humans come in different sizes.. some are taller.. some are skinner... BUT they don't come in different scales... it's one thing to have a guy 5'7 standing next to another who's 6' but that doesn't mean that the guy who is 5'7 should be skinner than the other... in fact, in real life, it's quite the opposite.. tall people are usually slender... small guys are fatter... now how come when coming to our hobby, people think the opposite ??
keep up the good work !
Alex
nasirkasmani
Sergeant Major
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,872
Hi Daniel,
thanks for your insightful post.
personally i felt the current paint style of HB has really hit the bulls eye. The sculpting has always been excellent, and now with the flesh tone more realistic, i felt more people are picking up HB figures now.
The colour too is well done, not too bright and vibrant as K&C, or too dark and gritty like Figarti. So no changes needed there.
i also like the thin figures in classical uniform, as they realistically portray the weary soldiers.
and the winter troopers correctly also appear realistically chunkier, as realistically, they tend to wear more clothes to keep warms.
regarding your questions, my personal preferences are
1) this is a 1/30 scale hobby, so pls follow the 1/30 scale,
2) with 1/30 measurement up to the head level,
3) inclusive of the base,
4) with same heights,
5) with accurate scale weapon.
6) uniform tones are great.
and seeing that HB's releases are never gonna match in terms of (monthly variety and sheer number) those of K&C, i humbly suggest HB to produce classic figures of WW2 and interesting figures alternately.(for example classic - early whermacht infantry, and interesting - german pioneers or german cavalry troops)
They can also concentrate on the potential of the Eastern Front, especially the winter troops.
all in all, HB's decision to cease the Gold edition vehicles had turned into a blessing in disguise, as HB can now 100% concentrate on their wonderful 1/30 figures.
my humble thoughts.
sincerely,
big fan of HB,
nasir kasmani.
thanks for your insightful post.
personally i felt the current paint style of HB has really hit the bulls eye. The sculpting has always been excellent, and now with the flesh tone more realistic, i felt more people are picking up HB figures now.
The colour too is well done, not too bright and vibrant as K&C, or too dark and gritty like Figarti. So no changes needed there.
i also like the thin figures in classical uniform, as they realistically portray the weary soldiers.
and the winter troopers correctly also appear realistically chunkier, as realistically, they tend to wear more clothes to keep warms.
regarding your questions, my personal preferences are
1) this is a 1/30 scale hobby, so pls follow the 1/30 scale,
2) with 1/30 measurement up to the head level,
3) inclusive of the base,
4) with same heights,
5) with accurate scale weapon.
6) uniform tones are great.
and seeing that HB's releases are never gonna match in terms of (monthly variety and sheer number) those of K&C, i humbly suggest HB to produce classic figures of WW2 and interesting figures alternately.(for example classic - early whermacht infantry, and interesting - german pioneers or german cavalry troops)
They can also concentrate on the potential of the Eastern Front, especially the winter troops.
all in all, HB's decision to cease the Gold edition vehicles had turned into a blessing in disguise, as HB can now 100% concentrate on their wonderful 1/30 figures.
my humble thoughts.
sincerely,
big fan of HB,
nasir kasmani.
steel wheels
Specialist
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 379
Thats good news! $125.00 instead of $250.00. Thanks for the update.
gk5717
2nd Lieutenant
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,195
Daniel, thank you for replying.
I,m the one who started this post. My problem with the 2 new sets is that it doen,t match up size wise to YOUR last German release, HB24.
When I received HB24 I thought, WOW, HB has got it down now. Those 4 German figures are some of my favorite figures in my entire collection.
As Alex stated, K&C is the leader in the 60mm WW2 matte figure line.
K&C consist of 90% of my collection, so therefore I too want to incorporate all the different brands of figures together.
Up until this last release, HB figures worked fine next to K&C, so I was really enthusiastic about your future releases.
To be quite frank on this matter, I cancelled my pre orders for HB as a result of the size differential.
I said it once and I,ll say it again, this line that people are different sizes, so to are toy soldiers. The way I look at it either they were sculpted to small are they came out of the molds smaller than anticipated.
In concluding, I am more than willing and looking forward to buying future HB figures if they resort back to the size they were, ieHB24.
Gary
I,m the one who started this post. My problem with the 2 new sets is that it doen,t match up size wise to YOUR last German release, HB24.
When I received HB24 I thought, WOW, HB has got it down now. Those 4 German figures are some of my favorite figures in my entire collection.
As Alex stated, K&C is the leader in the 60mm WW2 matte figure line.
K&C consist of 90% of my collection, so therefore I too want to incorporate all the different brands of figures together.
Up until this last release, HB figures worked fine next to K&C, so I was really enthusiastic about your future releases.
To be quite frank on this matter, I cancelled my pre orders for HB as a result of the size differential.
I said it once and I,ll say it again, this line that people are different sizes, so to are toy soldiers. The way I look at it either they were sculpted to small are they came out of the molds smaller than anticipated.
In concluding, I am more than willing and looking forward to buying future HB figures if they resort back to the size they were, ieHB24.
Gary
Ana Donzino
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,439
Gary - Thanks. The new sets are 60mm, we are getting sure that they fit in scale.
Sorry for the dissapointment that the medic team caused you. I still believe that it's one of our best sets, and that, even being slightly smaller, they can still fit the other sets of our line.
Thanks,
Ana
Sorry for the dissapointment that the medic team caused you. I still believe that it's one of our best sets, and that, even being slightly smaller, they can still fit the other sets of our line.
Thanks,
Ana
fmethorst
Command Sergeant Major
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,443
Daniel,
Thank you for your post. That obviously took considerable time to compose.
1) Do you think that we should match the figure volumes to all the other figures in this market? That is, should we make them bigger?
Not all the manufacturers produce figures the same size (i.e. Collectors Showcase is still larger than K&C) so my suggestion is to try to be similar in size to K&C. I think the majority of your figure releases do this already
2) Should the figures be 60mm up to the head or up to their eyes?
For me 1:30 scale works out to 1800mm/30 = 60mm from the top of the head (excluding hats/helmets) to the bottom of the feet with some allowance for height variations. Personally I think your Radio Team nailed 1:30 but I suspect what people really want is the slightly larger K&C scale
3) Should they be measured with or without the base?
The base and hats/helmets should not be included so a 62mm figure may end up 65mm in total
4) Should a 4 figures set have different height sizes showing different biotypes, or should be all be the same height?
I would like to see a little variation between the figures of a set. Personally I don't want an army of clones.
5) Should weapons keep a close to reality size or slightly larger, as most other figures of this market?
If possible my preference is for weapons to be close as possible to the correct size.
6) Do you think our uniform tones are correct?
I like your uniform tones
In addition I would like to comment on the new flesh tone. I feel this is bang on. This is one area I feel K&C could improve. I have some figures that look like they fell asleep in a tanning booth.
Thank you for your post. That obviously took considerable time to compose.
1) Do you think that we should match the figure volumes to all the other figures in this market? That is, should we make them bigger?
Not all the manufacturers produce figures the same size (i.e. Collectors Showcase is still larger than K&C) so my suggestion is to try to be similar in size to K&C. I think the majority of your figure releases do this already
2) Should the figures be 60mm up to the head or up to their eyes?
For me 1:30 scale works out to 1800mm/30 = 60mm from the top of the head (excluding hats/helmets) to the bottom of the feet with some allowance for height variations. Personally I think your Radio Team nailed 1:30 but I suspect what people really want is the slightly larger K&C scale
3) Should they be measured with or without the base?
The base and hats/helmets should not be included so a 62mm figure may end up 65mm in total
4) Should a 4 figures set have different height sizes showing different biotypes, or should be all be the same height?
I would like to see a little variation between the figures of a set. Personally I don't want an army of clones.
5) Should weapons keep a close to reality size or slightly larger, as most other figures of this market?
If possible my preference is for weapons to be close as possible to the correct size.
6) Do you think our uniform tones are correct?
I like your uniform tones
In addition I would like to comment on the new flesh tone. I feel this is bang on. This is one area I feel K&C could improve. I have some figures that look like they fell asleep in a tanning booth.
thebritfarmer
Moderator
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- Jan 29, 2008
- Messages
- 10,444
I have to agree with everything Frank has just said. SPOT ON !!
nasirkasmani
Sergeant Major
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- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,872
so i assume the winter medic team is going to be smallish too? or the layers of winter clothing going to increase the size?
Ana Donzino
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2005
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- 1,439
Nasir,
All the future sets will be in the correct scale.
Ana
All the future sets will be in the correct scale.
Ana
nasirkasmani
Sergeant Major
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- Oct 19, 2007
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- 1,872
Great!
desk11desk12
1st Lieutenant
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
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- 4,874
Gees,
There were a few people that really wanted HB34 set really badly....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120299016913&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002
It went for approx. $436 on eBay!
Carlos
There were a few people that really wanted HB34 set really badly....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120299016913&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002
It went for approx. $436 on eBay!
Carlos
SICK.....the shrinks' office is just down the street......
Canadian Samurai
Staff Sergeant
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 808
Hi Daniel,
I appreciate the fact you're asking such detailed questions of us. Just want to comment on the above one and say please continue to keep the weapons (especially rifles) as close to reality as you can. It makes them a little more fragile but I dislike the shorty/chunky rifles (especially Kar-98s) that K&C does on their newer figures. Your rifles are perhaps a bit TOO slim, but their length is better proportioned than K&C's.
In terms of the figure size, I just got my radio team and I compared it to some of my earlier walking K&C figures (WS040 - which is among the larger sets they made). The height on your radio guys is a tad bit short but within tolerances. What was more out of line with the K&C figs was the build of your figures - K&C figs are much chunkier, with broader shoulders and MUCH larger heads. While I actually think your figures are more realistically proportioned, you may want to consider beefing them up a bit to make them more compatible with K&C which is what most collectors want I think.
I am really impressed by the details on your set though, including the unexpected surprise that the pocket on my figure was painted to look like it was cut with a scallop rather than straight across as seen in the promotional photos, which makes the uniforms of the walking radio team perfect for early war. The radio itself is very nicely detailed and the splinter camouflage on the zeltbahn looks great.
nasirkasmani
Sergeant Major
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,872
what about the cap mate?
its a 1943 issue, so i'm afraid early war is out of the question.
i too had the same idea, but now can't as i missed out on that set.
Canadian Samurai
Staff Sergeant
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 808
Hi Nasir,
The walking pair of guys was who I was referring to. As you note, the kneeling guys are out of the question. For that reason, I don't really want the two kneeling figures so I could sell you my two kneeling guys if you're interested. I also may be able to secure another complete set depending on how things unfold.
The walking pair of guys was who I was referring to. As you note, the kneeling guys are out of the question. For that reason, I don't really want the two kneeling figures so I could sell you my two kneeling guys if you're interested. I also may be able to secure another complete set depending on how things unfold.
Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio
Command Sergeant Major
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 2,113
Hi Daniel and Ana!
I have to say that these two new WWII sets appear to be some of the best sets I have noticed for some time. Sets that I would be happy to have in my collection too.
The proportions and poses are realistic as well as the colouring. I think that your instincts are very good and although it is always important to process feed back, trust your technical and artistic judgement as well.
Hope to see you in Chicago.
All the best!
Ken Osen Hudson & Allen Studio/W. Britain
I have to say that these two new WWII sets appear to be some of the best sets I have noticed for some time. Sets that I would be happy to have in my collection too.
The proportions and poses are realistic as well as the colouring. I think that your instincts are very good and although it is always important to process feed back, trust your technical and artistic judgement as well.
Hope to see you in Chicago.
All the best!
Ken Osen Hudson & Allen Studio/W. Britain
desk11desk12
1st Lieutenant
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
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- 4,874