Historical Accuracy Poll (1 Viewer)

[Currahee Chris]

I have seen a lot of discussion, both heated and casual, about the historical accuracy aspect of the hobby. Good arguments are made on both sides of the fence. Me, well, I am happy with a Tiger or Panther looking like a German tank. But, to each his own.

So, here are the choices:

1.) 90% accuracy- If you fall in this bucket, you see yourself as one who carefully selects those products who pass all the tests you have. You are willing to forgo some very small details ( hatches were usually combat locked so therefore there wouldn't be a driver, tank had 8 roadwheels, not 7). In other words, you will allow for some very slight artistic license but thats about it.

2.) 75% accuracy- You are willing to forgive some moderate imperfections in order to satisfy your collecting needs. Moderate imperfections might include, incorrect unit number, incorrect rifle version, perhaps even the wrong unform colors.

3.) 50% accuracy- you are willing to forgive a major imperfection in order to satisfy your collecting needs, so much so that you might even buy a cavalry figure mounted on a five legged horse (provided that you could bury that horse away in a diorama with a massed charge). Major imperfections might include a Tiger tank sporting a 120mm main gun or a Rev War colonial standard bearer sporting a flag with 20-25 stars on it.

Vote away!! I am in the #2 block.

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Chris,

It really depends on the topic but for Tanks I prefer the 90% solution. I am a little more forgiving in some areas but roadwheels need to be right and thats that.

Now would you like a real poll done for this topic?

All the best

Dave

 

[sceic2]

WELLLLLLL… its like this. There is nothing or no one who is perfect. Not even me. For you see I am not perfect. Yes, I know it is hard to accept or to understand but the simple fact is I am not.

Let me splain. I once thought I made a mistake, but I did not make that mistake. So by thinking I made a mistake and not having made the mistake, I was mistaken. Therefore, I am not perfect. Makes sense don’t it

Well anyway, as my old grandmother once told me when she tenderly held me in her loving arms when I was but a little babe as she was gently rocking me to sleep on the front porch as the sun set gently in the pinkish and blue western sky, “No body and nothing is perfect, so just don’t try. Now go to sleep Michael, as the poet said, you have may miles to go before you sleep.”

I will accept minor imperfections but I refuse to accept a Tiger with four-wheel drive. Everybody knows that Tigers were single axle drive and that the tires could not handle the extra torque involved with a four-wheel drive system.

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

I don't think 90% accuracy is too much to ask for these days, at least for fairly modern periods...post photography. Prior to this the margin for intelligent reconstruction should increase as we move backward on the timeline.
There will always be flat out mistakes...and then there are production distortions to factor in too. I do think this falls into a slightly different catagory than poor research or disregard for known facts though.

 

[maloyalo]

I agree with the idea that 90% accurracy is not asking too much. I have already shelved many WWII vehicles and soldiers, as the newer and more realistic ones were produced.

I am slightly more forgiving with the troops, as they can be hidden in the mass, unless they have stupid poses

 

[binder001]

I am a "90 percenter". I get picky about my US WW2 stuff. As Ken O. stated, this stuff is been photographed and in most cases well researched. When somebody screws up the collectible "historical miniature" it is usually because they worked from one picture - they didn't ask anybody and/or didn't care to pick up a book.

There are some 75% cases - I will occasionally pick up one to use parts to make another item better.

So, I'm guilty as charged your honors!

Gary

 

[jazzeum]

I'm not really sure why it's not 100 percent or close to it. Is that asking too much?

 

[Currahee Chris]

I'm not really sure why it's not 100 percent or close to it. Is that asking too much?

The 90% choice can be interpreted as 90% or higher accuracy,it is very subjective. I had a professor in college tell us that he would never give a 100% (non quantitative class) as no one is perfect except God. I scored a few 29/30's and such but could never crack the 30/30. So, I have just followed that logic ever since.

Anyway, there is a 10% or less fudge factor that is built into the 90% category to account for personal bias- what may be to me a 1 or 2 percent error in accuracy may be 5-10% in another collectors eye.

We've received a lot of interesting feedback. Dave brought up some good points with the subject matter as well- certainly the data could be stratified to be more representative of certain niches within ones collection as well, but, this is more of a generalization, perhaps if we get a response rate of 100 or so, then we could expand upon that.

I am actually surprised with the results. I didn't think my fellow collectors were as discerning as they truly are. Very interesting indeed- guess that's why I'm not in the business.

 

[jazzeum]

I think that since I've started to collect and as I've thought about these things over the years, trying to be accurate as much as possible should be the goal. If I'm not accurate in my profession, I may not have one much longer.

If manufacturers of consumer products don't make product up to generally recognized standards (companies subject to the Food and Drug Administration have to make products in accordance with Good Manufacturing Practices), they can be sued for harm to the consumer.

Toy soldiers is obviously different but why can't they make it close to 100 per cent accurate, especially when we're paying good money for it.

 

[Currahee Chris]

......... If I'm not accurate in my profession, I may not have one much longer.

Guess DNA testing is helping to keep the law profession accurate

Fortunately for us in the audit profession, we have the concept of materiality, which is driven to some degree by numbers but professional judgement can "Tweek" it when necc. We ain't gotta be accurate, just reasonably accurate.

Well, looking at the poll results, we are neck and neck with the upper categories.

Regarding the expenditure of good money- Grenada recently released a mounted Alexander on a WHITE Bucephalus (sp?)- historical evidence shows the contrary, the Bucie was a black horse. Imagine dropping that coin on a mounted Grenada figure to have that imperfection???????

 

[sceic2]

Aside from my feeble efforts to humor readers (see previous post by me on this thread), IMO I think it is the continuing attempt to achieve perfection that is more important than the perfection itself.

King & Country and the other manufacturers have demonstrated for me that they are capable and do make the attempt to fill the gap between imperfection and perfection. Will they ever achieve it, probably not. But it is the movement toward that level of perfection that counts for me.

I believe it is our responsibility as purchasers to inform the manufacturers of our wishes and desires and it is their responsibility to make reasonable efforts to accommodate those wishes and desires within the realm of cost control and their ability to physically do what it is we ask of them. I believe that a goal of 100% accuracy in detail is not unreasonable.

 

[OzDigger]

As collectors gain more experience and knowledge of their interest they usually get more fussy, and I'm no exception - so 90% at least for me.

 

[trooper]

With reference to manufacturer's accuracy, any maker worth their salt should make every effort to ensure their product is as accurate as possible. Mistakes on obscure items are understandable but when glaring errors are made they should admit to them and correct them. Unfortunately some major firms make errors and then argue black is white that they haven't and that their version is undoubtedly correct, despite the fact that evidence to the contrary is readily available. All this attitude achieves is to spoil what could be an excellent item, and leave the customer in doubt as to the integrity of the maker and to assume that profit comes before accuracy. If a job is worth doing you owe it to both your cutomers and yourself to do it as well as possible.

 

[kilted vampire]

Shooting for 75% myself. Why go crazy. They are toys. I try to make things as right as possible. Not worried if it is type III or type IIII except when it comes to movies. I love to pick them apart.

 

[chiefs70]

I am most disappointed when the manufacturers flatly ignore solid evidence. As I mentioned in my intro thread in the K&C forum I come from the die cast aircraft/armor world of late and the number of manufacturers who release a model based on well-known photographs and still make glaring errors drive me batty! I am not a rivet counter but I expect 90+ accuracy in the basics (wrong weapons for the time period, missing road wheels, 4 legs on a horse, etc). I agree with the others that doesn't seem too much to ask when these folks obviously put a great deal of effort into creating their products - in most cases.

 

[OzDigger]

Shooting for 75% myself. Why go crazy. They are toys. I try to make things as right as possible. Not worried if it is type III or type IIII except when it comes to movies. I love to pick them apart.

Hi KV, considering the prices asked and the obvious adult target market I feel we are past the toy tag. You can't give the earlier figures to kids to play with because of the lead content and the later collectables are imo just to expensive and or inappropriate for most kids.

 

[Combat]

My standard is if I can recognize an error from having read a few books, watched the history channel or checked the internet in less than one minute then it should not be made by someone who makes a full-time living from doing this. I don't think that is asking too much. My question is whether some of these historical "errors" are intentional to make the product look better or just oversights? For example, one manufacturer told me they make the horses larger for their knights than they actually were because collectors prefer them that way. I can live with that if they are upfront when asked about it.

 

[thebritfarmer]

For me the figure has to pass as what it is supposed to be. I doubt we will see the day when figures are totally 100% accurate due to the scale of figures that we collect (basing this on 1/32). Some items wouldn't be able to be seen to the naked eye so I don't have a problem with them being left out.

 

[Scott]

In "toy" figures I don't worry too much. Think of Marx plastic Civil War figures from the 1960s. Close but not exact. If I was collecting painted metal figures at $20.00 each, I'd like to see correct.

 

[theBaron]

Hello, all!

My vote is for 90% accuracy or better. Sure, it can be a subjective decision, and it is probably impossible to know all of the details that were present on the day of a given battle, whether it's in our own time or at the siege of Troy. But for the prices we pay for the newer toy soldiers, or for kits, I think we all expect a certain level.

It can depend on the subject and the style, too. For those who collect classic toy soldiers, like original Britains, or even Heyde ("hi-deh", say it with me, "hi-deh", not "heidi"), they probably don't expect to see all of the uniform detail of newer figures in 54mm (like on a Puchala figure), or the level of detail and accuracy that we find in larger scales.

But if we're talking about newer makers, well, they've set the bar higher for themselves, and I think that generally, the expectations of accuracy and detail are equivalent to those of the scale modeler, who buys a kit and intends to make as accurate a replica as he can of the full-sized subject.

As I said, for the prices we pay, and for the amount of effort that the newer makers seem to put into development of a new subject and its research, we can expect, for example, that Britain's would not paint St Patrick's saltire on the Union Jack for figures before 1800, or that they wouldn't place the Black Watch at Culloden, when the regiment wasn't raised until later (see this month's Toy Soldier & Model Figure). But would it keep someone from buying the figures? Probably not; they're so well executed that it wouldn't matter. (In my former example, the error was caught before the figures were released generally, if I remember correctly. In the latter, it's still a pretty good Black Watch figure, no matter the catalog designation).

Prost beianand!
Brad