History Jagdtiger 302 (1 Viewer)

[AIDMAN]

Hi Guys I dont believe that this question has been covered in an earlier post so here goes!. Does anyone have any info on the magnificent
KC..WS180 Jagdtiger. I have searched and searched but cannot find anywhere_anyhow articles/photos over this particular Vehicle!!>
Is this just a Unit number that KC invented (302) or did it really exist?....If so which Panzerabt did it belong to, Where did it see combat, and what was its eventual demise....I would love to know the answer!!!.

Steve

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Based on K&C`s tendency to be historically accurate,my answer is ......it's correct,unless someone can show otherwise.
As far as details pertaining to the tank turret number. ^&confuse

 

[jager7080]

There is a Jagdtiger @ Ft. Lee in Virginia from Schwere Panzerjagerabteilung 653...It was/is numbered 331...damaged & left abandoned after the fighting @ Neustadt...

The King & Country Jagdtiger being marked 302 tells me Andy intended it to be one of the HQ tanks of 3rd company Schwere Panzerjagerabteilung 653...

 

[uksubs]

Based on K:wink2:&C`s tendency to be historically accurate,my answer is ......it's correct,unless someone can show otherwise.
As far as details pertaining to the tank turret number. ^&confuse

Rofl what a great answer mate you should go into politics .^&grin Think Mitch could give us the answer

 

[Mitch]

aidman...

Not near the references for both Heavy tank battalions that were given these AFV's. I don't off the top of my head recall this specific AFV but, will give you the info on the units when I look it up. I think there was a thread about this and, its colourway when it was announced.
Mitch

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Andy has not always been historically accurate and there is ample proof of that. However, he seems to have done his homework in this case. Schwere Pz.Abt. 653 was originally a Stug unit which was re-equiped with Ferdinands and later Elefants and fought mostly on the Eastern Front and Italy. In late 1944, the battalion's remaining Elefants were consolidated in the 2nd company and sent east while the 1st and 3rd companies were retrained on Jagdtigers. The Jagdtigers arrived for operations piecemeal over several months, the first ones arriving just too late to see action at the Battle of the Bulge. Over the next few months, many were destroyed by air attacks or abandoned due to breakdowns. Right near the end of the war, the survivors scooted west to surrender to the Americans. I don't think 653 saw much combat.

But 302 could certainly represent a 3rd company tank of 653. But why he didn't do the Jagdtiger of Otto Carius (Y1 of 2/512) an ace in a unit with lots of combat is beyond me. {sm2} Perhaps because 512 fought on the Eastern Front? :wink2:

Terry

 

[PanzerAce1944]

So, The answer to the question is.....Yes,the tank is accurate in its details.

 

[Guy]

Steve,
Tank could also belong to the 512th Schwere Panzer Abteilung that fought in Hungary. They had about 40 Jagdtigers
guy:smile2:

 

[jager7080]

Steve,
Tank could also belong to the 512th Schwere Panzer Abteilung that fought in Hungary. They had about 40 Jagdtigers
guy:smile2:

I believe the Schwere Pz. Abt. 512 had Jagdtigers in companies 1 & 2...That is what lead me to believe it had to be from Schwere Pz. Abt. 653 , King & Country numbered it 302 indicating it as a Jagdtiger belonging to third company...the zero indicates a HQ tank & the 2 would represent indivdual # of that tank respective to it's company...

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Steve,
Tank could also belong to the 512th Schwere Panzer Abteilung that fought in Hungary. They had about 40 Jagdtigers
guy:smile2:

I believe the Schwere Pz. Abt. 512 had Jagdtigers in companies 1 & 2...That is what lead me to believe it had to be from Schwere Pz. Abt. 653 , King & Country numbered it 302 indicating it as a Jagdtiger belonging to third company...the zero indicates a HQ tank & the 2 would represent indivdual # of that tank respective to it's company...

The 512 were the first to get Jagdtigers and they were full strength with 45 Jagdtigers in 2 companies. But they used letters and numbers for the tanks. The Jagdtiger companies 1/512 used X1, X2, X3 ... and 2/512 used Y1, Y2, Y3 ... I don't know if 512 ever used just numbers to identify their Jagdtigers or had a 3rd company of Jagdtigers.. It's most likely Jagtiger 302 was from 3/653. Here is a photo of Jagdtiger 331 from 3rd company s.Panzerjaegr Abt. 653.



Terry

 

[jager7080]

The 512 were the first to get Jagdtigers and they were full strength with 45 Jagdtigers in 2 companies. But they used letters and numbers for the tanks. The Jagdtiger companies 1/512 used X1, X2, X3 ... and 2/512 used Y1, Y2, Y3 ... I don't know if 512 ever used just numbers to identify their Jagdtigers or had a 3rd company of Jagdtigers.. It's most likely Jagtiger 302 was from 3/653. Here is a photo of Jagdtiger 331 from 3rd company s.Panzerjaegr Abt. 653.

View attachment 84462

Terry

Terry...331 is the Jagdtiger @ Ft. Lee in Virginia...from Pz Abt 653

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Note how similar the style of the 302 and balkenkruze on the model is compared to the photo of the number and balkenkruze on 331.

Terry

 

[jager7080]

Note how similar the style of the 302 and balkenkruze on the model is compared to the photo of the number and balkenkruze on 331.

Terry

Color picture of the Jagdtiger from virginia...# 331

 

[AIDMAN]

Hi Guys..It does indeed begin to look like the KC. Jagdtiger 302 was from Panzerjaeger Abt 653 who saw action in and around Neustadt....It would have been great to know just what happened with this vehicle and its crew?..but that is probabaly lost to history!!. At least i now know what sort of Buildings/Houses i have to build when i eventually get round to putting this Beast into a Diorama...And i have again learned a little more over the confusing German Vehicle numbering system (thanks Jager 7080 + Terry) Yes i had also hoped for the vehicle of Otto Carius
but i still love the 302!!!

Steve


Remember and Respect

 

[Guy]

The 653 Schwere Panzer abteilung had at the beginning of dec only 1 company fully equipped with Jagdtigers to participate in the BOB.They departed for the Ardennes on the 7th of dec but due to the miserable state of the railways they arrived too late and were diverted to Alsace instead. From the 3th company only 2 jagdtigers arrived by the start date of operation Nordwind and were subordinated to the 17th Panzergrenadier Div.A few more from 1st company arrived on the 7th of Jan and were subordinated to the 10th SS Panzer div. It is said that a couple arrived in time for the BoB and were part of the 15th army group.( no evidence)
The 302 is the tank of the deputy commander ( Henschel suspention) but if it is a befehlfahrzeug, it should have the umbrella antenna in the left back corner of the cupola.Furthermore, according to Andrew Devey the JT 102 from Oberlieutnant Franz Kretschner, was the last tank with Zimmerit and strangely enough, this tank despite of the number is not a befehls tank.
so a lot to think about
guy:smile2:

 

[Guy]

Andy has not always been historically accurate and there is ample proof of that. However, he seems to have done his homework in this case. Schwere Pz.Abt. 653 was originally a Stug unit which was re-equiped with Ferdinands and later Elefants and fought mostly on the Eastern Front and Italy. In late 1944, the battalion's remaining Elefants were consolidated in the 2nd company and sent east while the 1st and 3rd companies were retrained on Jagdtigers. The Jagdtigers arrived for operations piecemeal over several months, the first ones arriving just too late to see action at the Battle of the Bulge. Over the next few months, many were destroyed by air attacks or abandoned due to breakdowns. Right near the end of the war, the survivors scooted west to surrender to the Americans. I don't think 653 saw much combat.

But 302 could certainly represent a 3rd company tank of 653. But why he didn't do the Jagdtiger of Otto Carius (Y1 of 2/512) an ace in a unit with lots of combat is beyond me. {sm2} Perhaps because 512 fought on the Eastern Front? :wink2:

Terry

Terry
If I remember well in Andrew Devey's book it is stated that:
the Schwere Panzer Abteilung 512 had 3 companies .Only the 1st and 3th saw action. The 1st company was identified by the letter "X", the second company had no number and no letter markings and the 3th company was identified by the letter "Y". The 3th company became part of the SS Brigade Westfalen - Commander of the the 3/512 was SS Ostubaf Hans Stern.The 3/512 was totaly destroyed at Paderborn .
Guy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry
If I remember well in Andrew Devey's book it is stated that:
the Schwere Panzer Abteilung 512 had 3 companies .Only the 1st and 3th saw action. The 1st company was identified by the letter "X", the second company had no number and no letter markings and the 3th company was identified by the letter "Y". The 3th company became part of the SS Brigade Westfalen - Commander of the the 3/512 was SS Ostubaf Hans Stern.The 3/512 was totaly destroyed at Paderborn .
Guy

The 1st and 3rd companies were the Jagdtigers. The 2nd company was the remnants of the 3 companies of Elefants consolidated into 2nd company and was fighting in the east while 1st and 3rd company were training in Jagdtigers.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The 653 Schwere Panzer abteilung had at the beginning of dec only 1 company fully equipped with Jagdtigers to participate in the BOB.They departed for the Ardennes on the 7th of dec but due to the miserable state of the railways they arrived too late and were diverted to Alsace instead. From the 3th company only 2 jagdtigers arrived by the start date of operation Nordwind and were subordinated to the 17th Panzergrenadier Div.A few more from 1st company arrived on the 7th of Jan and were subordinated to the 10th SS Panzer div. It is said that a couple arrived in time for the BoB and were part of the 15th army group.( no evidence)
The 302 is the tank of the deputy commander ( Henschel suspention) but if it is a befehlfahrzeug, it should have the umbrella antenna in the left back corner of the cupola.Furthermore, according to Andrew Devey the JT 102 from Oberlieutnant Franz Kretschner, was the last tank with Zimmerit and strangely enough, this tank despite of the number is not a befehls tank.
so a lot to think about
guy:smile2:

Not really much to think about - I think your description is accurate. I've read that the 653rd was never more than an overstrength company due to transportation delays and some of the jagdtigers being diverted to other units. As #302 the tank probably should have had an umbrella antennae. I don't know about the zimmerit. But at least there was a 302 in the in the 653rd although Andy could have chosen a tank number with a less complicated history.

Terry

 

[Guy]

The 1st and 3rd companies were the Jagdtigers. The 2nd company was the remnants of the 3 companies of Elefants consolidated into 2nd company and was fighting in the east while 1st and 3rd company were training in Jagdtigers.

Terry

Terry
I am talking about the 512th where you say there were only Y and X company.
X = 1st comp and Y = 3th comp
2nd company used no letters nor numbers
guy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry
I am talking about the 512th where you say there were only Y and X company.
X = 1st comp and Y = 3th comp
2nd company used no letters nor numbers
guy

Yes - that's what I am trying to say. Or do you mean 2nd company was Jagdtigers too but without numbers? Because I understood 2nd company to be Elefants.

Terry