Hoplite question: (1 Viewer)

[storch]

I think the Greek figures are superb, incredible detail. The helmets, the armor, the shields are depicted the way artists envision them from both written and graphic
ancient descriptions. But this is my problem: the "dory" (spear) seems a bit too long. Most accounts and ancient depictions show a spear that is just a couple of feet
taller than the hoplite. Assuming that these guys were on average 5'5'' or 5'6', the spear was probably about 7 feet. From the pictures, the spears look about twice as long as the height of the soldier. In addition to that, most historians believe that the spear was used overarm (in a stabbing fashion). One of the figures is carrying the spear underarm, just the way the Macedonians carried the "sarissa" (a pike that was probably 18 feet long). The spears that the K&C figures have are too short to be sarissas and too long to be dorys, and it is clear that they could not be used overarm. One more thing. The spears of the hoplites had a pointed piece of bronze at
the bottom used as a counterbalance for the spear and to finish off enemies that had fallen to the ground. I don't see that piece in the pictures.

I love the pieces though, and while I am not about to start collecting a new line, I am sure that I will by at least a couple of the figures.

 

[lancer]

I think the Greek figures are superb, incredible detail. The helmets, the armor, the shields are depicted the way artists envision them from both written and graphic
ancient descriptions. But this is my problem: the "dory" (spear) seems a bit too long. Most accounts and ancient depictions show a spear that is just a couple of feet
taller than the hoplite. Assuming that these guys were on average 5'5'' or 5'6', the spear was probably about 7 feet. From the pictures, the spears look about twice as long as the height of the soldier. In addition to that, most historians believe that the spear was used overarm (in a stabbing fashion). One of the figures is carrying the spear underarm, just the way the Macedonians carried the "sarissa" (a pike that was probably 18 feet long). The spears that the K&C figures have are too short to be sarissas and too long to be dorys, and it is clear that they could not be used overarm. One more thing. The spears of the hoplites had a pointed piece of bronze at
the bottom used as a counterbalance for the spear and to finish off enemies that had fallen to the ground. I don't see that piece in the pictures.

I love the pieces though, and while I am not about to start collecting a new line, I am sure that I will by at least a couple of the figures.

Good catch and quite correct. Careful, you could find yourself a member of the rivet counter club.:wink2: -- Al

 

[debrito]

I complete disagree with you about these series, but I will not start any debate here, the only thing that I would like to add is: the Greek on green (women or man, hard to say) has a short right leg and it seems to have a extra Shoe sole to equalize his height...at $50, 00 a piece....{eek3}

 

[mikemiller1955]

I complete disagree with you about these series, but I will not start any debate here, the only thing that I would like to add is: the Greek on green (women or man, hard to say) has a short right leg and it seems to have a extra Shoe sole to equalize his height...at $50, 00 a piece....{eek3}

Ooooooooooh my....very good eye...you're absolutely right...this won't work...I hope they take the time to correct this...delay it if you have to...but please correct this...they are not due to be released until early October...this should be addressed by then...held back til fixed...I hope!!!!

 

[Peiper007]

Hello

I think the figures Ag004 and Ag003 are twins - either men or women!

 

[cnq]

Ooooooooooh my....very good eye...you're absolutely right...this won't work...I hope they take the time to correct this...delay it if you have to...but please correct this...they are not due to be released until early October...this should be addressed by then...held back til fixed...I hope!!!!

yes indeed very good eye to catch it....For the price of this figure I think I will be looking at First Legion Medieval figures ( very attempting). I know they are not from the same era, but for the money FL figures have the best value.

 

[thebritfarmer]

I would imagine it is a pre-production figure and it was not seated properly in the base.

 

[lancer]

Come on! Mr. Hoplite is obviously just adjusting his Dr.Scholls sandel. I'm more concerned about those exceedingly long spears/pikes. -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

I think he's wearing elevator shoes

That's why the figure is $50: he has to pay his orthopedist!

 

[mikemiller1955]

I would imagine it is a pre-production figure and it was not seated properly in the base.

Scott...I have wanted a Trojan or Hoplite series for a while...so I'm really excited to see this series...

I hope this is a pre-production flaw that escaped the scrutininzing eye of the K&C team...it looks like an easy fix...(easy for me to say)...if there is such a thing...whether they raise the ground...remove the foot and lenghten the piece...I don't know...I can't sculpt a square box...but it's a flaw that got past their inspection line that needs to be corrected....all the bases on the Hoplites seem to be the same style of groundwork...even the Collector's Club Hoplite Marine figure...so it may be a harder fix than I know...but I'm sure they will fix it...they can't release this...

I remember a couple of months ago...JJD stopped production on a plane to correct an insignia inaccuracey flaw after it's prototype was shown...rather than release it with the flaw...so it can be done...it can corrected before offering it...or scrapped if it has to be scrapped...

the price...WOW!!!....it is really getting up there...I preordered all 7 pieces...plus the CC Marine...but I can't figure out the price increase on the pieces...the shields are elaborate...but no more so than the Saracens...these Greeks look 20% higher in price than the other offerings this month...I'll start the series...as I really want them and have already pre-ordered them...but I won't promise to finish them at these prices...

it's not too late for them to amend the prices...but I wouldn't count on it...^&grin

 

[Spanish soldier]

Each month prices are higher, please wages do not rise as fast{sm2}


Francisco

 

[MarkeytMaker]

I consider the shoe a purposeful modification by the shoe cobbler. Cobblers have been working with shoes for centuries, and cobbling is one of the oldest professions in the world. Historically, people purchased shoes from the cobbler, and used the cobbler's services to continually repair the shoes as needed. A single pair of shoes could last for a decade or more with judicious resoling, refinishing, and minor repair work, giving the warrior a great deal of mileage.^&grin


Markey

 

[damian]

If you read Thuycides you would know that polio was a problem in Ancient Greece so some hoplites had bad legs and needed special shoes.
This soldier was known as Hop along the Hoplite.

 

[mikemiller1955]

Nick told me a joke the other day...

Do you know why the Hoplites originated?

they were less filling than the Regular Hops...^&grin

 

[lancer]

If you read Thuycides you would know that polio was a problem in Ancient Greece so some hoplites had bad legs and needed special shoes.
This soldier was known as Hop along the Hoplite.

Unless he had been born in Sparta, in which case he would be known as...nothing, because he would have been exposed at birth. End of story. -- Al

 

[Mitch]

I know the spears being that long would be useful for battles i.e. keeping back the enemy at long range but, a question I have been asked and, I know very little about greek battle and non battle order is would they use such long spears when in guard mode?? would they not be smaller or, are these guys!!! ready for battle
Mitch

 

[damian]

Unless he had been born in Sparta, in which case he would be known as...nothing, because he would have been exposed at birth. End of story. -- Al

You are not born with polio. You acquire it in late childhood.

 

[storch]

It always surprises me that in the world of toy soldiers so much attention is paid to little details, but when it comes to something as crucial as the main battle weapon of a soldier such an obvious mistake is made.

 

[lancer]

You are not born with polio. You acquire it in late childhood.

I know that. It was just a weak attempt at humor at the expense of ancient Sparta.:wink2: -- Al

 

[lancer]

I know the spears being that long would be useful for battles i.e. keeping back the enemy at long range but, a question I have been asked and, I know very little about greek battle and non battle order is would they use such long spears when in guard mode?? would they not be smaller or, are these guys!!! ready for battle
Mitch

Hi Mitch. The whole point of Classical Greek warfare was to close with the enemy and hopefully break them in a short, vicious hand-to-hand fight. The shorter spears were perfect for the close in phalanx type warfare that was the norm. The long pike was a later development that is associated with Macedonian warfare. The short spears were the primary weapon and the sword was more or less an emergency go to weapon only when the spear was broken/lost in combat. Whether long spears/pikes were used on guard duty, I doubt it but I guess anything is possible. -- Al