How can you tell if a W Britain figure has been repainted? (2 Viewers)

[forengr2]

Hello,
I'm helping my father in law sell his collection of toy soldiers, mostly W Britain, on ebay. Some of the sales are easy (especially the most recent "collector figures") because the items have never been used or even removed from their original boxes. For older soldiers, it's a lot more tricky. I have a couple of reference books, and I've been able to learn quite a lot just nosing around on the internet, but it's always an uphill climb.
Right now I'm wondering if there's a sure-fire way to tell if a figure has been touched up or repainted. I have some figures which have blotches of paint on the undersides of the bases. I'm wondering if it was common practice for painters to do this, or if it's an indicator that a collector did the work.
Thanks for any advice you can offer!

 

[theBaron]

Hello,
I'm helping my father in law sell his collection of toy soldiers, mostly W Britain, on ebay. Some of the sales are easy (especially the most recent "collector figures") because the items have never been used or even removed from their original boxes. For older soldiers, it's a lot more tricky. I have a couple of reference books, and I've been able to learn quite a lot just nosing around on the internet, but it's always an uphill climb.
Right now I'm wondering if there's a sure-fire way to tell if a figure has been touched up or repainted. I have some figures which have blotches of paint on the undersides of the bases. I'm wondering if it was common practice for painters to do this, or if it's an indicator that a collector did the work.
Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Welcome to the forum!

In my opinion, there is no sure-fire way, and no quick way, to tell whether a figure has been repaired or repainted. It takes familiarity with Britains figures, from having handled them and developing the skill to recognize them, to having resources like the books by authors like James Opie or Norman Joplin, to name just a few.

Having said that, some things may be obvious, like a repair featuring paint that doesn't match the rest of the paint on a figure, eg, like an arm on a figure with a red tunic, and the arm doesn't match the color of the tunic. Some things might not be so obvious, and only noticeable to an experienced eye. A well-done repair job would expected to be virtually unnoticeable, compared to another example of the same figure in its original or unaltered state. Given that Britain licenses vendors to sell replacement parts for the classic hollowcast toy soldiers, it can be very difficult to spot a repair that was done deliberately to restore the figure to its original state or something close to it.

As to your specific example, of blotches of paint under the bases, as far as I know that was not a practice at the factory, but I also have never heard that any collectors did that.

Of the thousands of boys who played with old Britains, there were probably very few who every painted their figures at all, whether to repair them or to make them into subjects that Britain never produced. There aren't very many collectors who do, either, though there are some, including a couple of us here in the forum. That is, the number of repaired or restored figures, as a percentage of the whole production, must be very small.

If you've got any that you're not sure of, of course, you can post photos here and let the community take a look and see what they think.

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

Or as Quint says to Chief Brody, "Nothin's ever easy, is it, Chief?"

 

[DMNamiot]

I have seen an article some where a long while back that said the paint used now Floresses under a black light and that some folks use this technique to check for repairs. Or it could be the old paint floresses I can’t remember but I will see if I can find that article. Now that said I like my old guys to look played with but I know some guys want all of them to be perfect so repairs or restoration is done to satisfy that need. Is it bad does it decrease value are all good discussion points but I think you will get as many yes it’s bad as you will get no that doesn’t matter. Definitely a personal issue and only the collector can make that call. Me I like what I like be it old or new so as a magpie collector I am happy when I get a long sought item into my collection no matter the condition.

Dave

 

[forengr2]

So for example, I have these nice Italian Infantry fellows. One has a relatively clean bottom, one bottom seems a bit messy. Other than that, they seem to match pretty well, at least to my untrained eye.
I tried to include the images, but they were too big and I couldn't figure out how to make them smaller, so am including the ebay listing instead. I hope that's not an issue, would be happy to list them in classifieds but it's been a long day of computering, so maybe tomorrow (sigh).

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/122859722817?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

 

[forengr2]

I have seen an article some where a long while back that said the paint used now Floresses under a black light and that some folks use this technique to check for repairs. Or it could be the old paint floresses I can’t remember but I will see if I can find that article. Now that said I like my old guys to look played with but I know some guys want all of them to be perfect so repairs or restoration is done to satisfy that need. Is it bad does it decrease value are all good discussion points but I think you will get as many yes it’s bad as you will get no that doesn’t matter. Definitely a personal issue and only the collector can make that call. Me I like what I like be it old or new so as a magpie collector I am happy when I get a long sought item into my collection no matter the condition.

Dave

That would be very helpful, thank you. I think I have an old black light bulb hanging around somewhere!

 

[theBaron]

...I tried to include the images, but they were too big and I couldn't figure out how to make them smaller...

If you use a photo hosting site, like Postimage, Fotki, or some other, you can get links to post here and elsewhere. That's what I do, and I find it easier than worrying about resizing your photos to meet the attachment file size requirements here or in any other forum.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Arnhemjim]

Hello forengr2,
There are a significant number of experts in vintage W. Britains Ltd. (1893-1966) toy soldiers out there. The names of Ed Ruby, James Opie and Joe Wallis have to be included among them. Having collected the vintage Britains since the late 1940s, have a limited amount of knowledge, but it has been an avocation, not a profession. The newer chemical composition of gloss paints (lacquer/acrylics vs enamel) shows up slightly lighter (discernible) under ultra-violet ("black") light in contrast to the original paint. I've personally done the inspection. However, if the figure has been totally re-painted, it is very difficult to detect. Although glossy in appearance the vintage Britains don't have quite the sheen as modern gloss paints. You may find some additional information of interest in the following article on my blog page; http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/p/britains-minatures.html .
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

 

[jazzeum]

I’m not a Britains collector but I do know a few collectors and the old time collectors consider it a major offense to touch up a figure. I brokered a transaction a couple of years ago and when I offered the buyer the services of a master painter to do some slight touch ups, he strongly demurred.

 

[forengr2]

Photos! How can you tell if a W Britain figure has been repainted?

Hello,
I'm helping my father in law sell his collection of toy soldiers, mostly W Britain, on ebay. Some of the sales are easy (especially the most recent "collector figures") because the items have never been used or even removed from their original boxes. For older soldiers, it's a lot more tricky. I have a couple of reference books, and I've been able to learn quite a lot just nosing around on the internet, but it's always an uphill climb.
Right now I'm wondering if there's a sure-fire way to tell if a figure has been touched up or repainted. I have some figures which have blotches of paint on the undersides of the bases. I'm wondering if it was common practice for painters to do this, or if it's an indicator that a collector did the work.
Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Thanks for thoughts to date, all. I hope these photos will work. As you can see, some of the bottoms are clean, others are kind of gloppy.

 

[forengr2]

If you use a photo hosting site, like Postimage, Fotki, or some other, you can get links to post here and elsewhere. That's what I do, and I find it easier than worrying about resizing your photos to meet the attachment file size requirements here or in any other forum.

Prost!
Brad

Where there's a will there's a way! Your comment reminded me that I had made a little Facebook site to put photos on--it never got off the ground as I always forgot to update it, but I put my large photos on it, and FB resized them automatically! Then I transferred them over here. Thanks for the tip!

 

[forengr2]

Hello forengr2,
There are a significant number of experts in vintage W. Britains Ltd. (1893-1966) toy soldiers out there. The names of Ed Ruby, James Opie and Joe Wallis have to be included among them. Having collected the vintage Britains since the late 1940s, have a limited amount of knowledge, but it has been an avocation, not a profession. The newer chemical composition of gloss paints (lacquer/acrylics vs enamel) shows up slightly lighter (discernible) under ultra-violet ("black") light in contrast to the original paint. I've personally done the inspection. However, if the figure has been totally re-painted, it is very difficult to detect. Although glossy in appearance the vintage Britains don't have quite the sheen as modern gloss paints. You may find some additional information of interest in the following article on my blog page; http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/p/britains-minatures.html .
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

Thanks for this. I have a couple of reference books by Richard O'Brien but the photos are small and Black & White. Useful for figuring out roughly what items are, but not so good for these more subtle questions.

 

[Arnhemjim]

Hello forengr2,
The image of the Britains set you show, Set No. 1435 Italian Infantry in Service Dress, appears to be post-WWII production (1948-1959), but without the officer. Not certain if some later production was without the officer (James Opie discusses this in one of his book). I enlarged the image in order to inspect the figures quite closely. Personally reasonably confident (>95%) all the figures are original factory paint. A strong indicator is the correct bronzed-brown color of all the rifles, easily chipped, and extremely difficult to replicate. Have the identical set with officer from the same time frame (1951), and your figures appear precisely the same, including both the paint colors and quality of the painting. The box you show with them appears to be late pre-WWII or very early post war "ARMIES of the WORLD", as opposed to the later "Regiments of All Nations" style. Very nice set in excellent condition.

 

[OzDigger]

Where there's a will there's a way! Your comment reminded me that I had made a little Facebook site to put photos on--it never got off the ground as I always forgot to update it, but I put my large photos on it, and FB resized them automatically! Then I transferred them over here. Thanks for the tip!

What a great idea, I might start my own Facebook Photo site.

 

[theBaron]

I see what you mean about paint under the base. In your original post, I understood you to ask whether it was put there deliberately, and I said that I didn't think it was. Seeing your photo now, it looks like paint bled when the figure was sitting on a bench, getting painted. That's not that unusual, in a situation where a painter is working on hundreds of figures in the course of a day. I don't think we can use that as a criterion to decide whether the figure has been retouched.

Prost!
Brad

 

[DMNamiot]

I believe Brad is correct on his assessment of the paint on the bottom of the bases. WB used a ton of small home workers to paint their figures so some extra paint on the bottom of the bases is not s big deal.

Dave

 

[forengr2]

Thanks everyone--this makes me feel much better! I feel very grateful for your quick, cheerful, knowledgeable responses.

 

[forengr2]

What a great idea, I might start my own Facebook Photo site.

It's pretty easy--you can use your existing Facebook account and have a sort of "alter ego." I meant to do more with mine, but you know...real life intervened....:^)

 

[tryfon]

Hello,
I'm helping my father in law sell his collection of toy soldiers, mostly W Britain, on ebay. Some of the sales are easy (especially the most recent "collector figures") because the items have never been used or even removed from their original boxes. For older soldiers, it's a lot more tricky. I have a couple of reference books, and I've been able to learn quite a lot just nosing around on the internet, but it's always an uphill climb.
Right now I'm wondering if there's a sure-fire way to tell if a figure has been touched up or repainted. I have some figures which have blotches of paint on the undersides of the bases. I'm wondering if it was common practice for painters to do this, or if it's an indicator that a collector did the work.
Thanks for any advice you can offer!

post pics here may be able to assist

 

[OzDigger]

It's pretty easy--you can use your existing Facebook account and have a sort of "alter ego." I meant to do more with mine, but you know...real life intervened....:^)

I sorted it out earlier today, added an album to the photo section of my Facebook account I named models. Photos in it are only visible to me. I upload and add photos I take with my smartphone direct to the "model" album on FB then save each photo from there to a photo folder on my pc. This process reduces the size of the photos enabling easy attachment to forum posts. I guess there are easier ways to refuce phito size etc but saves me having to use photo hosting sites. Thanks for the tip.