How can you tell if a W Britain figure has been repainted? (1 Viewer)

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forengr2

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Hello,

I realized after browsing around that I might be more likely to have my question answered on this section of the forum. Apologies for any double-posting.

I'm helping my father in law sell his collection of toy soldiers, mostly W Britain, on ebay. Some of the sales are easy (especially the most recent "collector figures") because the items have never been used or even removed from their original boxes. For older soldiers, it's a lot more tricky. I have a couple of reference books, and I've been able to learn quite a lot just nosing around on the internet, but it's always an uphill climb.
Right now I'm wondering if there's a sure-fire way to tell if a figure has been touched up or repainted. I have some figures which have blotches of paint on the undersides of the bases. I'm wondering if it was common practice for early painters to do this, or if it's an indicator that a collector did the work.
Thanks for any advice you can offer!
 
Re: How can you tell if a W Britain figure has been repainted?-

forengr2 said:
Hello,
I'm helping my father in law sell his collection of toy soldiers, mostly W Britain, on ebay. Some of the sales are easy (especially the most recent "collector figures") because the items have never been used or even removed from their original boxes. For older soldiers, it's a lot more tricky. I have a couple of reference books, and I've been able to learn quite a lot just nosing around on the internet, but it's always an uphill climb.
Right now I'm wondering if there's a sure-fire way to tell if a figure has been touched up or repainted. I have some figures which have blotches of paint on the undersides of the bases. I'm wondering if it was common practice for painters to do this, or if it's an indicator that a collector did the work.
Thanks for any advice you can offer!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!

In my opinion, there is no sure-fire way, and no quick way, to tell whether a figure has been repaired or repainted. It takes familiarity with Britains figures, from having handled them and developing the skill to recognize them, to having resources like the books by authors like James Opie or Norman Joplin, to name just a few.

Having said that, some things may be obvious, like a repair featuring paint that doesn't match the rest of the paint on a figure, eg, like an arm on a figure with a red tunic, and the arm doesn't match the color of the tunic. Some things might not be so obvious, and only noticeable to an experienced eye. A well-done repair job would expected to be virtually unnoticeable, compared to another example of the same figure in its original or unaltered state. Given that Britain licenses vendors to sell replacement parts for the classic hollowcast toy soldiers, it can be very difficult to spot a repair that was done deliberately to restore the figure to its original state or something close to it.

As to your specific example, of blotches of paint under the bases, as far as I know that was not a practice at the factory, but I also have never heard that any collectors did that.

Of the thousands of boys who played with old Britains, there were probably very few who every painted their figures at all, whether to repair them or to make them into subjects that Britain never produced. There aren't very many collectors who do, either, though there are some, including a couple of us here in the forum. That is, the number of repaired or restored figures, as a percentage of the whole production, must be very small.

If you've got any that you're not sure of, of course, you can post photos here and let the community take a look and see what they think.

Prost!
Brad
 
In my small ex business,,I sold restored old britains,,the ones I could bear to part with,,I always mentioned them as restored and I usually did a minor bit of embellishing ,,medals,,details etc,,so they would look somewhat more done then originals,,if they are well done it could be difficult,,like all the Shelby mustang clones etc,,there are ways,
 
Hi there and welcome to the forum.

As Brad already mentioned there are some clues you can see right away when looking at older hollow cast figures. If the figures look too good ie not played with that us usually your first indication of potential repainting. However Britains did do a higher level of painting on special ordered figures these are out there but are rare and will command a premium if authentic. But for the vast majority you can usually tell if there has been some touch ups by shining a black light on them ones that have been retouched will show the difference as long as it’s only a touch up. If the entire figure has been redone that will make it harder to spot. If you can post some photos of the items you are unsure of and one of us will be able to help you.

Dave
 
I'm pretty well convinced that nearly every Wm Britain's figure offered on eBay has been repainted or touched up in some fashion...and shame on the sellers for representing them as original figures.

I recently bought a set of Skinner's Horse on eBay that were listed as Rare from the 1940s. I didn't believe it thinking that Britains probably wasn't making toy soldiers in its factory during WW2, but the price was cheap and I intend to,use them for Wargaming rather than as collectors pieces.

When I opened the package, sure enough, they were badly painted with nary a straight line and rather sloppy looking painting at that. As I said, I didn't pay much for them so I didn't care that much, but I would only buy Britains from reputable dealers if I wanted them as collection pieces.
 
Any thoughts on this B-scale "Ulundi Lancer"? I'm guessing a head swap.

lancer.jpeg

lancer2.jpeg

Thanks
 
PinotNoir said:
Any thoughts on this B-scale "Ulundi Lancer"? I'm guessing a head swap.

View attachment 252459

View attachment 252460

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi buddy,

Set 12b was the 16th Lancers, and was produced mounted, with riders in a Foreign Service (FS) helmet - but your pic shows the horse having one bent front leg. The 16th Lancer(FS) rides a horse with four straightish legs. So.....your figure is NOT a repaint of the 16th Lancer figure - he's on the wrong horse.

This leads me to agree that this figure is probably from set 13b The 17th Lancers - (rider wears a Czapka) originally - and has been head-swapped at some time - to produce the figure you show. (The head would come from 12b, whilst the rest of the figure conforms to the shape of 13b).

There were also sets in Khaki uniform wearing khaki FS helmets which could have been used to re-head the figure.

If you are going to remove the existing paint, you might be able to see the joint.

Johnnybach

[See in The Great Book of Britains, 100 years of Britains Toy Soldiers 1893-1993; page 43 - Illustrations 57 & 58].
 
Der Alte Fritz said:
I'm pretty well convinced that nearly every Wm Britain's figure offered on eBay has been repainted or touched up in some fashion...and shame on the sellers for representing them as original figures.
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I don't agree with that statement. I think it's more likely that most of the Britains we see on eBay are sold by people who are simply dealers in antiques and collectibles, not specialty toy soldier sellers. They have very little familiarity with toy soldiers at all, let alone with Britains or any other brand. Often pieces are mis-indentified as Britains, but come from some other maker. Or a seller who at least knows the names of a couple of manufacturers mentions them in the title or description of his auction, so it will turn up in more search and maybe lead to a sale. The canny collector knows what he's looking for, and can ferret out a bargain.

Prost!
Brad
 
In the past I have restored many hundreds of old Britains,,for my collection and for others as a small business,I never misrepresented one as anything but "restored" it was most enjoyable bringing them back and I still have boxes of broken ,High patina as our auto friends say ,figures,,It is unfortunate that some give that part of the hobby a bad name,,I almost always embellished the Factory paintjobs etc and gave them a slight -over done look,,
with restoration parts and the latest paints the work can be more rewarding then ever,,For a late collector friend who actually saved every damaged piece he ever had,,parts in a small bag with each figure ,I did a late 1890s? set of royal irish lancers each in distress,,I always asked what level of work was wanted,,he was very happy with the results as I was,,MY payment was usually in broken and damaged figures ,a mutual benefit,,with costs and availability the days of cheap restorables is done,,wonderful history and memories,,
 
bromhead said:
In the past I have restored many hundreds of old Britains,,for my collection and for others as a small business,I never misrepresented one as anything but "restored" it was most enjoyable bringing them back and I still have boxes of broken ,High patina as our auto friends say ,figures,,It is unfortunate that some give that part of the hobby a bad name,,I almost always embellished the Factory paintjobs etc and gave them a slight -over done look,,
with restoration parts and the latest paints the work can be more rewarding then ever,,For a late collector friend who actually saved every damaged piece he ever had,,parts in a small bag with each figure ,I did a late 1890s? set of royal irish lancers each in distress,,I always asked what level of work was wanted,,he was very happy with the results as I was,,MY payment was usually in broken and damaged figures ,a mutual benefit,,with costs and availability the days of cheap restorables is done,,wonderful history and memories,,
Click to expand...

We think so very much the same, my friend.

I re-started my hobby of painting castings when I was around 50 years old - but eventually found that repairing wounded warriors was my favourite thing. I've probably given away more than I have sold ( which always have "restored") attached to them. For fun - I always ask for recipients to spot the repair - and it's fun to see them "guess" at it - and they are nearly always wrong. jb
 
theBaron said:
I don't agree with that statement. I think it's more likely that most of the Britains we see on eBay are sold by people who are simply dealers in antiques and collectibles, not specialty toy soldier sellers. They have very little familiarity with toy soldiers at all, let alone with Britains or any other brand. Often pieces are mis-indentified as Britains, but come from some other maker. Or a seller who at least knows the names of a couple of manufacturers mentions them in the title or description of his auction, so it will turn up in more search and maybe lead to a sale. The canny collector knows what he's looking for, and can ferret out a bargain.

Prost!
Brad
Click to expand...

ebay Heyde.jpgThese were listed as Heyde Lancers on ebay. Best buy ever for B scale Britains.
 
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