How do you do a proper wash on plastic miniatures with acrylic paints? (2 Viewers)

[Bid_kahuna]

I used to use enamel based paints for my plastic miniatures when I was painting a lot about 10 years ago and I had no problem at all with washes made using paint and thinner.

Now that I have begun painting again using water based acrylics, when I try to apply a paint and water wash to an acrylic paint base, the wash destroys the base coat, taking off chunks of it.

How can I prevent this? What is the proper technique? Sorry for such a basic question, but I want to start painting again using acrylics, as enamels are so much more expensive, and I can't get much done without a good wash.

Thanks very much!

 

[Ragnar]

Sounds like you have to much water mixed in before the base coat dry's?.....or maybe try the pre-mixed bottles.
I don't use them much myself so not an expert....But do use a brown ink as a wash for faces witch works well.
Using acrylics also,

 

[Bid_kahuna]

Sounds like you have to much water mixed in before the base coat dry's?.....

I may indeed have too much water in my wash. It's a very tricky balancing act. Not enough water, and the wash covers the base coat, too much and it destroys it.

Wow. This time around painting is much more frustrating than fun so far. I used to get lost in painting for hours, but this is getting tedious! With enamels, I could do a wash very soon after applying the base coat, but this afternoon, I tried washing a figure I base-coated last night and a huge flap of the base coat peeled right off his chest.

Next I added a little more paint to the wash and tried another figure and the wash just painted right over the base coat. In a moment of anger and frustration I ran the figure under the tap and all the paint (I had done his cap, jacket and pants) just peeled right off in several pieces. This happened after the base coat had dried overnight. It makes me wonder about the durability of acrylics. I had heard that the acrylic paint forms a bond with the plastic of the figure. This "bond" was even weaker than the chocolate coating on a peanut.

I had washed the figures with dish soap before painting, so it wasn't a case of them being oily. These were AIP WW1 Japanese figures. AIP figures do not seem to have as much surface texture as other brands. They are very smooth-surfaced. Perhaps that was the problem. I'm using craft acrylics from Michael's and Hobby Lobby. I know those are cheap, but I didn't have these problems using those kinds of paints when I experimented with some dollar store Plains Indians a few years ago.

 

[Ragnar]

AIP do have a smooth surface i give them a good scrub with a tooth brush then prime.
Don't give up painting is fun and very rewarding.....and AIP figures do look good painted up!

 

[theBaron]

Two questions--do you prime your figures, before you apply your colors, and do you seal your colors, before you apply the wash?

If you're not priming, then whether you use enamels, acrylics or oils, your colors don't have as good a "tooth" to the surface as they will if you prime. A primer helps provide a better bond between the surface and the subsequent coats.

If you're not sealing, and you're applying an acrylic wash over an acrylic base, then remember that the solvent you use to make the wash is also a solvent for the base. Sealing the base before applying the wash will protect the underlying colors. You could seal with any varnish, be it matte or glossy, or seal with Future floor wax. Future is a liquid acrylic, but if you're using water to make your wash, Future will be impervious to it.

Another question--are you using the craft store acrylics for your base colors, or for the washes? I have the craft store acrylics, too, but I found after experimenting with them that they aren't as good for painting figures as paints formulated for painting figures.. You get what you pay for. The pigments in them are much more coarsely ground, so the surface can be gritty. They're not bad for washes or weathering, though, or for tinting groundwork. But you might want to try Vallejo or Andrea acrylics, for example for base colors. I use Tamiya acrylics, too, thinned with their proprietary thinner.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Mike Blake]

This is very odd! I have been using acrylics on all kinds of plastic figures for more years than I want to admit to and I have never had this problem!

I can only conclude, like another response suggests, that the problem lies in a) not priming and/or b) the quality of the paint used. IMHO plastic figures must be cleaned and primed. It helps adhesion of the paint and also helps it 'show' better if light, bright colours are going over dark plastic.

I usually soak the figures in vinegar overnight for the mild acid to remove any remaining mould release agent; seal with button polish (a shellac varnish); prime with white, black or pale grey (depending on what's to follow); paint; wash (both with thinned acrylics, artists inks, figure washes, mixes of these etc); seal with PVA glue or spray acrylic varnish; re-matte with artists matte varnish where the sealer has glossed an area which should be flat.

As to the paints - I use the craft paints too, because there are some different shades available, but mostly I use 'proper' model/toy figure paints. I have found there is an element of 'you get what you pay for' in paints as another poster says - pigment is expensive, good. fine pigment is very expensive (water colour painters will know what I mean - hence the difference between student and artists colours). A 10 pence hamburger doesn't have the same meat in it as a GB£1 one! Even in these specialist paint ranges there are some duds - colours which don't cover well etc.

Please don't give up - don't take offence but it has to be something you are doing, because when others do it it works!

 

[Bid_kahuna]

Thanks for the tips, guys! I am having much better results with my acrylics on some Reisler bandidos and an old Marx ruined building.




I've shelved the AIP Japanese for now. The paint just doesn't seem to want to adhere to them that well, even after a 24 hour soak in dish soap and hot water. I've never bothered to prime plastic miniatures. I always prime metals, but for some reason I never did it with plastics. I never had a problem with not priming. Maybe I'll clean the paint off the Japanese and try priming them. They are very smooth and slick. Hopefully priming will help the situation.

Mike Blake... Are you the same Mike "Botch" Blake that was mentioned in an old set of Western Gunfight skirmish rules from the late 70s? My buddies and I played that game all the time in middle school. We were always reenacting the "Battle at the Mission" that was mentioned in the rules, where you and several other players, I think they were named Long-Haired Steve and Kid Colter, fought 50 Mexican solders. We were huge fans of The Wild Bunch and your adventure, if that was you, was very inspiring to us! We used Airfix, Deetail and Timpo cowboys and Mexicans and a Marx Fort Apache blockhouse to replay your epic stand...

 

[Mike Blake]

Guilty as charged. Glad you had such fun with the rules.

 

[Bid_kahuna]

Guilty as charged. Glad you had such fun with the rules.

I did some Googling and I find you were in fact the author of the rules! Thanks very much for all the fun we had with them. I wish I still had my copy. I also found this while I was googling:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38780

It's a short story based on the gunfight at the mission! Wow! 30+ years later I get the whole story! Too cool!

 

[Mike Blake]

That is a story we wrote of games recorded in our 'Annals of Pima County', used without acknowledgement! We have a whole series of inter-linked 'narrative campaign' stories of Old West games we've played.

I have them all on the PC if you'd like to read some more! But we'd better do it by PM rather than continue to take this thread away form topic.