I remember King & Country back when...... (2 Viewers)

ucla1967

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I remember King & Country back when it was not the 800 pound gorilla in the toy soldier world that it is today. Before you take umbrage, that is meant as a compliment. Back in 1991, when I started collecting toy soldiers, the universe was quite different from what it is in 2006. Most figures were gloss painted, 54mm, and in a more traditional "toy soldier" style. There was no eBay, we did not have the two first-rate toy soldier magazines (Toy Soldier & Model Figure and Toy Soldier Collector), and there were not as many shows. Back then, Trophy of Wales was probably the 800 pound gorilla. In addition, other first tier manufacturers would have included W. Britains, Tradition, and Imperial. The second tier might have included Marolbough (the reincarnation of Blenheim), All the Queens Men, Alymer, Ducal, and Steadfast. The third tier included a number of campanies that were smaller, with limited product offerings, were dying off, or were new to the business. To this latter group I would include the the British ex-pats in Hong Kong, Gerard Prime and Howard Swales of Frontline and Andy Neilson of King & Country.

Len Taylor's Trophy Minatures was head and shoulders above the rest in my opinion. His sculpting and painting was much better than Britains, for example. His figures were 54mm, but more robust than the previous standard. But he also had a wide and deep product offering that included Indian Army, Boxer Rebellion, Napoleonic, Zulu War, and Sudan. In addition to having the standard sets of six men firing or marching or charging, he had hand-to-hand and Battle Dioramas. For example, you could (and I did) make a great Battle of Isandalwana display from the Zulu War by including, in addition to the standard 24th Foot and Zulus sets, about 10 hand-to-hand sets, plus Battle Dioramas of Durnford's Last Stand (Col. Durnford fighting from a wagon beside a Natal Native Horse (NNH) figure, a dead Lt. Roberts of the NNH, and a Zulu), Savage Fury (an overturned wagon defended by two 24th Foot, a dead NNH figure, and an attacking Zulu), the Lost Gun (an Artillery piece being overrun by the Zulus), The Quartermaster Says No (a QM turning down a NNH figure asking for ammo while another QM figure hands it out to a 24th Foot soldier). So, in a way, Trophy pioneered the diorama look.

Dave Cowe's Imperial Products of New Zealand, which sadly closed for business in June, produced a traditional style soldier with a superior attention to detail and painting standards. I bought my first 10 or so sets at a gun show, took them home, took a good look at them, called the seller up and bought all the other sets he had for sale. By the time I had discovered this product line, sets one through 28 were no longer in production, set 29 started his Zulu War series (I have all of these sets), set 46 started his Sudan series (I also have all of them), he also had two Heirloom sets of 40 figures each in wooden boxes of the Cameron Highlanders (yes, I have them), plus a Crimean War series, ACW series and a Napoleonic series. You can still find the first 28 sets at the shows or on eBay, but they are becoming harder to find. I noticed a dealer at the Chicago show selling sets 1 thru 4 for $250 each.


Britains was producing more basic, traditional figures that were throw backs to their earlier glory days. The figures were fairly basic without much detail (e.g., no painted eyes). Some were packaged in Whisstock like boxes. In addition, they had a Limited Edition series which started in 1983 with set 5183(the Seaforth Highlanders) with a run of 3,000 sets. It originally sold for about $50, but collectors were paying $500 for it in 1995. I have the first 22 sets in this series. In about 1994, they came out with Charles Biggs Priemer 8900 series of WW I artillery sets which were high-end and priced accordingly. After the Britains family sold the company to Racing Champions, it lost its focus and was dumped by many dealers and collectors alike. A lot of their stuff was sold a fire sale prices at the Toy Soldier shows. I hope the new team can bring this historic company back to life.

What about King & Country you might ask. Well, they were producing the Highland Brigade, Seaforths, Royal Marines, RHA, Indian Army, Grenadier Guards, WW II aircrew, and others. Now I had several of the Highland Brigade sets (e.g., colour party, marching, and pipe band) in my collection. But in all honesty, I really believe the Imperial Productions Black Watch sets from the Boer War, 23 thru 26, were superior in sculpting and painting. When I bought my K & C RHA six horse team with gun & limber, I did a double take because they looked so much like (in style and paint) my Fronline Figures Charge of the Light Brigade cavalry. But K & C has come a long, long way since those early days. In my estimation, his product offerings are awesome! They really are not toy soldiers at all, but more like military minatures that could be shown in museum dioramas. The World War II figures are without a doubt the finest in the industry, bar none. And this is from a collector who has all the Frontline Figures WW II Americans and Germans. I am always eagerly await the newest offerings. Andy's innovations, creativity, and marketing acumen are the "Best of Breed" in the toy soldier industry.


Now that is not to say that there is not room for a lot of players in this industry. I hope you would all agree that this is good for all of us whether we be collectors, dealers, or competitors. For example, I think K & C's Napoleonic line is top notch, but I prefer the breadth of Frontline Figures line. I have a Waterloo battle set up with 187 of their figures. I have five different British Regiments, one Prussian Regt., a Brunswick Regt., a Nasua Regt. with both center and grenadier companies, and numerous French units. I also have a battle of Austerlitz set up with 99 Russian, Austrian, and French pieces from Frontline Figures. Separately displayed, I have Saxons, Bavarians, Westphalians, Irish, Neapolitans, Swiss, Poles, and Dutch. The quality of the sculpting, painting. and detailing are outstanding. They are "robust" 54mm, matte finished. Would I mix them with K & C? No, but each company has its place in our little fantasy world.

I was going to cover more, but this is even putting me to sleep. Best regards to all.
 
I remember when K&C were but nicely painted clumps of lead that somehow came together to make a really great diorama. I remember many saying that but, like potato chips, if they bought one set they bought five, then ten, then...
 
Mike,

I joined the King & Country party in late 1993/early 1994, but was collecting Toy soldiers from around 1991, just like you. I had a very similar experience with the other Toy Soldier producers back then, and agree with all of your assessments about them.

I would only add, with regard to Trophy, that as great as the figures and mini dioramas are, it was always a bear to get a hold of them. I to have all of the Zulu was diorama sets you mentioned, and a few others, like a command tent, a tent full of dead soldiers, and a field kitchen, but to get them, I actually flew to London and went to the Guard's Museum Toy Soldier Shop, which back before the advent of on line shops and e-bay, was the only place to reliably get everything you want from Trophy. On that same trip I went to the St. James Armoury, because it was the one place where you could get everything Frontline.

Imperial was always wonderful, and the owner of Imperial once sent me a lovely letter (I still have) in response to a question about one of his products. I was truly sad to see them close shop last June. They were wonderfully sculpted and painted figures, but were true toy soldiers, with little pink dots on their cheeks and perfectly clean and undamaged uniforms.

With the exception of the Centenary Series and the Charles Biggs Premier Series, Britains did nothing for me.

As far as the early K&C (which I have chased down for the last 12 years or so), some of it was primitive and, quite frankly, unoriginal, while others showed flashes of the brilliance of K&C products today. The one thing that was absolutely superb from early on was the wood, metal and resin vehicles and the wood aircraft produced from 1990 through 1997. Each vehicle and aircraft was a work of art, and while some of the more mass produced aircraft (like the Spitfire and ME109, where more than 150 were produced) came with a wide variance in overall quality, most of the aircraft are absolutely gorgeous. Frankly, when I set up dioramas, I use the modern figures with the older vehicles and aircraft. Todays polystone vehicles for the most part just don't live up to the quality of the figures.

As to competition, I agree with you on that point as well. For me Frontline makes excellent Napoleonic and Civil War products, and I am looking forward to seeing the Honour Bound products.
 
Dear Mike

You didn't put me to sleep, I found your opener, and the subsequent replies fascinating. You also remind me why I dare not start on Napoleonics.

I only discovered KK in the mid 1990's in a shop in Regents Street (you know the one Andy) but did not buy my first ever toy soldier set from Mike Neville until 2003. I still know nothing about the hobby but do know what I like.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Dear Kevin,

You only live once and life is short! Go ahead and give the Napoleonics a try. You will not regret it.
 
Louis Badolato said:
Mike,

I joined the King & Country party in late 1993/early 1994, but was collecting Toy soldiers from around 1991, just like you. I had a very similar experience with the other Toy Soldier producers back then, and agree with all of your assessments about them.

I would only add, with regard to Trophy, that as great as the figures and mini dioramas are, it was always a bear to get a hold of them. I to have all of the Zulu was diorama sets you mentioned, and a few others, like a command tent, a tent full of dead soldiers, and a field kitchen, but to get them, I actually flew to London and went to the Guard's Museum Toy Soldier Shop, which back before the advent of on line shops and e-bay, was the only place to reliably get everything you want from Trophy. On that same trip I went to the St. James Armoury, because it was the one place where you could get everything Frontline.

Imperial was always wonderful, and the owner of Imperial once sent me a lovely letter (I still have) in response to a question about one of his products. I was truly sad to see them close shop last June. They were wonderfully sculpted and painted figures, but were true toy soldiers, with little pink dots on their cheeks and perfectly clean and undamaged uniforms.

With the exception of the Centenary Series and the Charles Biggs Premier Series, Britains did nothing for me.

As far as the early K&C (which I have chased down for the last 12 years or so), some of it was primitive and, quite frankly, unoriginal, while others showed flashes of the brilliance of K&C products today. The one thing that was absolutely superb from early on was the wood, metal and resin vehicles and the wood aircraft produced from 1990 through 1997. Each vehicle and aircraft was a work of art, and while some of the more mass produced aircraft (like the Spitfire and ME109, where more than 150 were produced) came with a wide variance in overall quality, most of the aircraft are absolutely gorgeous. Frankly, when I set up dioramas, I use the modern figures with the older vehicles and aircraft. Todays polystone vehicles for the most part just don't live up to the quality of the figures.

As to competition, I agree with you on that point as well. For me Frontline makes excellent Napoleonic and Civil War products, and I am looking forward to seeing the Honour Bound products.

Louis,

I was more fortunate living here in Southern California because we had two shops, Bob Fisher's Old Toy Soldier Home in Vista and Toy Troops in Huntington Beach that carried them. They were also available by mail from Greg Hahn of Stone Castle.

When I bought the Frontline Figures Napoleonic and ACW lines, I started selling my Trophy Napoleonics and ACW at the West Coaster along with my Tradition Napoleonics at 25% off list. I still have about a dozen sets left.
 
panda1gen said:
No!

I must not succu.......

Oh come on. Follow the shiny light and your eyes will become heavy. Now listen to the words... panda1gen, you WILL begin to collect Napoleonics, YOU will begin to collect..... Just follow the light, follow the light. I did and I have not looked back. ;) Michael
 
Mike,for someone who has been collecting K&C for about five years (and other toy soldiers all his life)i found your post very interesting and informative.Thanks for taking the time to do it.

Rob
 
Michael: Thanks for posting this interesting thread. I enjoyed reading about your summary of K&C. I still find room for traditional figures along with matte figures.I really like the new Britain Redcoat and Blue coat series.
Also, I would like to thank you for your nice article in Toy Soldier & Model Figure magazine on the West Coast Show. That was very informative, even with the backside picture of KV.:D I got a picture that Shannon took of us at Chicago last year. Glad to see you are posting. Leadmen (John).
 
I'm glad to see that, since this thread started, Imperial has gone back into production, and there is a chance that Trophy will also go back into production in coming years. I too still find a great deal of charm in traditional glossy toy soldiers, and frankly, prefer them for the pre-1900 Victorian conflicts. The part of the Forum dedicated to glossy soldiers has become quite popular, and I would love to see what K&C could do today with some of the subjects it originally covered in glossy between 1984 and 1996.
 
I for one would love to see Trophy return,have some fine Zulu war figures from them.

Rob
 
You may want to check out Little Legion. They look pretty nice.
 
Brad,yes i also have quite a few of theirs too.I was collecting Zulu war figures when i first strolled by Andys table in London.The rest as they say is History!.

Rob
 
Yo Mike! Didn't you pick up a early K&C Pipe Band of the Seaforth Highlanders In Boar War uniforms at the WestCoaster.
Still got it? Or am I mistakin'?
 
Louis,

Where did you pick up the info Imperial was going back into business? I heard that months ago, but haven't seen anything since. I love King & Country (AK and EA), but got my start with Imperial in the mid-1990's. Great sets. Like you, I have a really nice letter from David, the owner, in which he sent me a bunch of old catalogs.

Dan
 
Funny this thread reminded me of a vacation I took to Wales back in 2002. I was with a girlfriend from Florida and her family. I was driving our rental car and asked for one favor - to find this Toy Soldier Shop - Trophy of Wales. It took use a couple of hours driving around Southern Wales - but, I found it !

It was closed :( - Bank Holiday or something....

Anyway - it was in an industral park - kinda neat.

Great Thread. :)
 
Louis,

Where did you pick up the info Imperial was going back into business? I heard that months ago, but haven't seen anything since. I love King & Country (AK and EA), but got my start with Imperial in the mid-1990's. Great sets. Like you, I have a really nice letter from David, the owner, in which he sent me a bunch of old catalogs.

Dan

Follow this link to the "Imperial's Back" thread, and you can see that indeed, Imperial her reopened: http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3704
 
Thanks for the links. Welcome news (except for the hit on my pocketbook).
 

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