Identifying Toy Soldiers and Moulds "BM and PB" ? (1 Viewer)

[Imperial Miniatures]

I have just received some 50 moulds of 54mm Toy Soldiers which cover mostly French Napoleonics, British Napolenics and some Jousting Knights.

The moulds are 9" black rubber with the slightly unusual thing of having lumps of rubber in them as locators and also having square metal locating pegs in the middle.

They are not labelled in anyway at all so I am left wondering what range they are from and what they were sold as?

The person I bought them from could only tell me they hadn't been on the market since 2000 and he couldn't remember who he got them from - he thought someone in the North of England...

The mould with horse bases in it (lozenge shaped) has "(C) BM and PB " scratched into them.

When I get a chance I'll cast some up and put them together - they have separate bodies, heads, backpacks, arms and bayonets, etc.

Anyone any idea what they might be?

thanks

Mike

 

[theBaron]

...The moulds are 9" black rubber with the slightly unusual thing of having lumps of rubber in them as locators and also having square metal locating pegs in the middle...

Mike

The mating lugs aren't all that unusual. Prins August molds are made with little square lugs molded in. As for the additional metal locating pegs, I've seen similar locators in molds I've had made by a commercial mold-maker (RLJ Casting, last in Erie, PA). But that suggests to me that you've got molds from a shop, from a toy-soldier maker, rather than molds sold for home-casting (like Prins August).

Unfortunately, the initials "BM & PB" haven't yet rung a bell. When you're able to get some castings, I'm sure that'll help ID the molds.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

The mating lugs aren't all that unusual. Prins August molds are made with little square lugs molded in. As for the additional metal locating pegs, I've seen similar locators in molds I've had made by a commercial mold-maker (RLJ Casting, last in Erie, PA). But that suggests to me that you've got molds from a shop, from a toy-soldier maker, rather than molds sold for home-casting (like Prins August).

Unfortunately, the initials "BM & PB" haven't yet rung a bell. When you're able to get some castings, I'm sure that'll help ID the molds.

Prost!
Brad

Hi Brad

Yes, they are commercial 9" moulds for spin-casting - never seen the rubber lugs used in a spin-cast mould before...

Mike

 

[theBaron]

Hi Brad

Yes, they are commercial 9" moulds for spin-casting - never seen the rubber lugs used in a spin-cast mould before...

Mike

Ah, OK, understood, they're the round ones, then? Yeah, lugs cast integrally with the molds would probably tear, during the casting process. Now that I remember, some of the molds RLJ made for me were made in that configuration, as one mold cavity in a disk that contained several, because he'd make up a batch of orders at once. So the molds he delivered to me were "slices" of a disk.

I think if you can make some castings, they may be a big clue. In the meantime, hopefully the initials are familiar to someone. I have a feeling that it may be a case in which someone recognizes them, and we'll all say, "Of course! Why didn't we recognize that?!"

Prost!
Brad

 

[kilted vampire]

Oh a mystery.....I love mysteries.

 

[Obee]

When I get a chance I'll cast some up and put them together - they have separate bodies, heads, backpacks, arms and bayonets, etc.

thanks

Mike

Yes, cast and take some pics .... "a picture tells a thousand words" .....

Looking forward to what's coming, especially seeing some are NAPs

John

 

[theBaron]

The Treefrog Irregulars are on the case!

 

[johnnybach]

Yes, cast and take some pics .... "a picture tells a thousand words" .....

Looking forward to what's coming, especially seeing some are NAPs

John

Goodie! - I hope they are KNIGHTS...................... I might even buy some!!!{sm3}jb (Treefrog Irregular - Ye Olde Medieval Section).

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

I threw a few moulds on the end of a casting run on Friday and have tacked a couple of figures roughly together to show the style. They all have oval bases with a dimpled texture on them which might be a clue.

Mike

Photos below:

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

 

[theBaron]

I still can't place them, but I have to say that this French cuirassier:

View attachment 209757

reminds me very much of Russell Gammage's mounted figures in his Rose Miniatures catalog. The way the casting is laid out is exactly the same as it is for figures such as his 18th century German States dragoon or French dragoon, or his Imperial German cavalry figures-cuirassiers, Uhlans and hussars. The arm holding the sword looks exactly the same as that same piece that Gammage had available, for that pose. That makes me wonder whether these molds reflect a collection of other makers' figures "adopted" for casting and sale by Messers. "BM" and "PB". But that's just my impression. I still can't identify anyone by those initials. Hopefully someone else will recall, or will recognize the other castings, if they do indeed originate with some other maker.

Let me say, too, that I do not mean to imply any kind of piracy. There are a couple of makers today who produce figures that originated with other makers, now out of business. John Eden, for example, has some of the Rose, Phoenix and Sanderson ranges. Forty-Third, Ltd, has most of the rest of Phoenix.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

I still can't place them, but I have to say that this French cuirassier:
reminds me very much of Russell Gammage's mounted figures in his Rose Miniatures catalog. The way the casting is laid out is exactly the same as it is for figures such as his 18th century German States dragoon or French dragoon, or his Imperial German cavalry figures-cuirassiers, Uhlans and hussars. The arm holding the sword looks exactly the same as that same piece that Gammage had available, for that pose. That makes me wonder whether these molds reflect a collection of other makers' figures "adopted" for casting and sale by Messers. "BM" and "PB". But that's just my impression. I still can't identify anyone by those initials. Hopefully someone else will recall, or will recognize the other castings, if they do indeed originate with some other maker.

Let me say, too, that I do not mean to imply any kind of piracy. There are a couple of makers today who produce figures that originated with other makers, now out of business. John Eden, for example, has some of the Rose, Phoenix and Sanderson ranges. Forty-Third, Ltd, has most of the rest of Phoenix.

Prost!
Brad

Hi Brad.

A couple of the moulds I have looked at have dollies in them - including the dolly used for the kneeling french and british figures so I am pretty sure these are a range developed by whoever produced the moulds. Thereare some odd figures that look 28mm and some orses that look more like 40mm and ancients to me - so it may be the mouldmaker mixed up moulds or did some casting for other people. If I could track down who's style of moulds these are I might be able to work it out....

Anyway, I'll get them cast up and painted when things quieten down a little and see what people think.

I've got a ton of others things to sort first - not least the Agincourt range for JB!

Mike

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Brad.

A couple of the moulds I have looked at have dollies in them - including the dolly used for the kneeling french and british figures so I am pretty sure these are a range developed by whoever produced the moulds. Thereare some odd figures that look 28mm and some orses that look more like 40mm and ancients to me - so it may be the mouldmaker mixed up moulds or did some casting for other people. If I could track down who's style of moulds these are I might be able to work it out....

Anyway, I'll get them cast up and painted when things quieten down a little and see what people think.

I've got a ton of others things to sort first - not least the Agincourt range for JB!

Mike

Hurrah! jb

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

A couple of quick photos of a knight and horse from the same series of moulds....





Maybe someone will recognise the style.

 

[theBaron]

Two questions: Do you have the molds for the bases for the knights, and the other mounted figures, too, for that matter? And will you make the castings available through your catalog? Apologies if you mentioned that earlier and I've forgotten it.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

Two questions: Do you have the molds for the bases for the knights, and the other mounted figures, too, for that matter? And will you make the castings available through your catalog? Apologies if you mentioned that earlier and I've forgotten it.

Prost!
Brad

Hi Brad,

yes, the knights have a small oval base - which didn't fully cast when I spun the mould the once- - I am assuming that the two back legs and the extra pin are used to attach it to the base.

The mounted Napoleonics have bases as well.

I will be making the figures available as castings (as with all our figures) once they are sorted and in the catalogue.

thanks

Mike

 

[theBaron]

Have you noticed if there are any 18th century figures or Imperial Germans, too?

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

A couple of quick photos of a knight and horse from the same series of moulds....

View attachment 209856

View attachment 209857

Maybe someone will recognise the style.

I don't recognise the maker, Mike - but it looks like the figure will work. I like the "triangulation pegs" for the rearing horse - who - when put on the base will be far stronger for that third peg.

Maybe you could make some different "heads" for the horse Mike - as that could mean selling more versions for kit-bashers to make up???

Same thing for the knight - as alternative weapons /shields and again heads/ helmets/ crests - will mean that customers can make several up differently?? I like the fact that the knight is de-mountable - as you can change the figure too - if you would like something else aboard. I like to adapt existing castings by using different varieties of such parts, but still using the core of the figure to begin with.

If you go down that route of different kit parts - I think these might become good sellers for you Mike.

Lastly - I'm not keen at all on lances ( or flag/standard-poles made from soft metal - they always bend and sag - and sometimes break altogether. I always substitute brass rod for the shafts.

Here's an example of what I mean Mike - all of these began as castings based on the old Selwyn-Smith sculpt of the Knight Standard Bearer. Changes in arms, heads,weapons ( or even gender - in the case of Joan of Arc) are possible - by changing parts of the basic figure. IF you can do this - it will make new figures far easier to obtain - than finding spare parts from various dealers.

Hope that helps.

Count me in - if you do go down that route. jb

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

Have you noticed if there are any 18th century figures or Imperial Germans, too?

Prost!
Brad

Hi Brad

No, no 18th Century or Germans.

The next AQM range I am hoping to acquire the moulds and masters for is the Imperial German range.

Mike

 

[Imperial Miniatures]

I don't recognise the maker, Mike - but it looks like the figure will work. I like the "triangulation pegs" for the rearing horse - who - when put on the base will be far stronger for that third peg.

Maybe you could make some different "heads" for the horse Mike - as that could mean selling more versions for kit-bashers to make up???

Same thing for the knight - as alternative weapons /shields and again heads/ helmets/ crests - will mean that customers can make several up differently?? I like the fact that the knight is de-mountable - as you can change the figure too - if you would like something else aboard. I like to adapt existing castings by using different varieties of such parts, but still using the core of the figure to begin with.

If you go down that route of different kit parts - I think these might become good sellers for you Mike.

Lastly - I'm not keen at all on lances ( or flag/standard-poles made from soft metal - they always bend and sag - and sometimes break altogether. I always substitute brass rod for the shafts.

Here's an example of what I mean Mike - all of these began as castings based on the old Selwyn-Smith sculpt of the Knight Standard Bearer. Changes in arms, heads,weapons ( or even gender - in the case of Joan of Arc) are possible - by changing parts of the basic figure. IF you can do this - it will make new figures far easier to obtain - than finding spare parts from various dealers.

Hope that helps.

Count me in - if you do go down that route. jb

Nice looking figures, as always.

There are a couple of other moulds with knight bits in them that I haveyet to cast. Once I have sorted through everything and worked out what goes with what I will be making them available as kits and I am happy to supply spare parts from the kits for other conversions.

These moulds are a little easier to work out the contents of than the Agincourt moulds which I need to get the original display figures for (hopefully get them in the next week or so) so I can work out which moulds contain which parts for each of the 8 knights.

Mike