If Hitler didn't unleash Operation Autumn Mist...... (1 Viewer)

[Hockoy]

I have mused on this question, and thought of a few things. If Hitler did not push through Belgium what would he have done? I think if Hitler played conservative and used those panzer divisions in a defensive war that the war in Europe would have dragged on perhaps another year. Of course, the German defenses collapsed around most of Europe during 1944, but the germans could have used the Siegfried Line to their advantage, or they could've concentrated on beating back the Russians who were getting closer and closer to Berlin. What do you all think?

 

[binder001]

It's generally agreed that Hitler lost as soon as he got himself into a multi-front war. All he could do from there was to delay and prolong. It was bad enough that he faced peripheral enemies (in Italy etc) but when there was a successful lodgement in France that provided a true second ground front he was done for. IF (big IF) the Germans could have either knocked Russia out of the war early or have bled the Russians dry with mobile battles while the Panzer units were still at peak efficiency, then he might have contained the western Allies, but with two massive ground assaults proceeding at once, plus the disruption caused by the western strategic air campaign, what could he have done? Despite the popular view of the German armed forces, the Army was gradually being de-modernized (lower training standards, few total vehicles, less fuel to run them, etc), the Air Force had been outfought and was outnumbered (even ME262s can't be everywhere at once!). His Navy was all but gone. Just like a child who doesn't want to go to bed, all Hitler could do was fuss and stall.

 

[sceic2]

I am certain that there are as many opinions about the war’s turning points as there are stars in the heavens or dead bodies from the war. My own personal opinion is that the war was lost for Germany, not when they opened the second front, but when the Soviet Union treated with Japan and moved the majority of their fresh troops from Manchuria to the Eastern Front during beginning of the winter campaign. That movement of a very large number of fresh combat units is also associated with the learning curve that the Soviet units had to endure to understand the tactics of countering the step-by-step routine of the German Army’s Blitzkrieg.

 

[Njja]

I believe Germany lost the war when they mistreated the Russian people.

Many were tired of Stalin, but found Hitler even worse. This impowered the

Russians as they chased the Germans back to Germany. Certainly the

Germans put up a fight but they knew what was in store for them if captured,

which certainly took the fight out of them. My father was with a force of

US GI'S that met up with the Russians in Germany. His group was ordered to

hold at a river and wait for the Russian link up. He said each day more and

more Germans surrendered as the Russians got closer. Finally when the last

of the Germans had crossed there was a terrific bombardment that walked

shells up to the opposite river bank, the Americans did not know what to

expect as both sides knew there were no Germans left in this area.

Finally the two armies met, my father was suprised first to see Russian

General ride up in a German Limo pulled by horses to review US troops.

In the days that followed he saw many many drunken Russian soldiers,

watched NCO's punch soldiers that did not line up properly. Saw a group of

Russian soldiers sitting around drinking while that had a captured german

excercising until he was unable to do any more.....then shot.

He had many experiences during the war, but he found the Russians to be

a crude, heartless, group, and imagined they must have been tough for the

much more disciplined Germans to deal with.

Njja

 

[Hockoy]

When I first typed this thread I didn't consider the Allies industrial capability. The U.S.' industrial capability was far greater than that of Germany's. The allied airforce was unbeatable in late 1944-early 45. Continuous allied bombing runs battered German industrial centers. Their wasn't much else Germany could do. Even if they didn't unleash the offensive they were finished. Also, good story by Njja.

 

[OzDigger]

For those members that don't know, Autumn Mist is more commonly known as the Battle of the Bulge. I pretty much agree with what Binder has said already. And even with a European delay, the only difference would be that Japan would have been defeated before Germany. The US had far to many resources that were also out of harms way.