Is This Production Assault Good? (1 Viewer)

maddadicus

maddadicus

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I am starting to feel the pressure of too much K/C and too many toy soldier choices in general. We are not even allowed to take a breath to save a couple pennies before we are overwhelmed again with the latest flood of figures. Is K/C todays buyers choice and thus the standard that most mfg. have to challenge? Yes, but is the K/C current plan for flooding the market with as much product as possible in as many eras as it can, ultimately good for the collector, or the hobby ,in general? When does the want everything K/C bubble burst ,under the collectors' massive debt, from trying to keep up? There are folks here that cry against ebay, but how else ,can any collector keep up the present buying pace, without selling, for new income? And then, when the financial pressure to sell ,forces everyone to flood the ebay market, with the same stuff, how does that help values? Am I the only one ,who sees doom and gloom in this toy soldier carpet bombing of our senses and pocketbooks? Michael
 
maddadicus said:
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I am starting to feel the pressure of too much K/C and too many toy soldier choices in general. We are not even allowed to take a breath to save a couple pennies before we are overwhelmed again with the latest flood of figures. Is K/C todays buyers choice and thus the standard that most mfg. have to challenge? Yes, but is the K/C current plan for flooding the market with as much product as possible in as many eras as it can, ultimately good for the collector, or the hobby ,in general? When does the want everything K/C bubble burst ,under the collectors' massive debt, from trying to keep up? There are folks here that cry against ebay, but how else ,can any collector keep up the present buying pace, without selling, for new income? And then, when the financial pressure to sell ,forces everyone to flood the ebay market, with the same stuff, how does that help values? Am I the only one ,who sees doom and gloom in this toy soldier carpet bombing of our senses and pocketbooks? Michael
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Michael

I agree the flood of new product cause people (like me) to sell part of their old collections to get the new. This done a very wide scale can have a negative effect on the market and value of our figures.

But, you are not looking at the demand side - more people are going to ebay for that figure they missed and with a new cycle of New Releases - there is a better chance to see more and different items than you have seen before to buy.

This is good for the market - some items will go down in value (although many items have been inflated by a few European Buyers) to some degree.

But, the future is bright for those who pick and choose their Ranges and Collections - people like me are simply DOOMED! :eek:

Ron
 
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I also think it helps if these ranges are really long term and are not retired for a very long time,gives people reassurance that they can catch up eventually and its worth collecting them.

Rob
 
Market saturation has caused the collapse of a number of collectables in the past. I think most collectors buy a duplicate now and again to resell for extra hobby money, I do it myself so it can't be evil :)

Ebay is not to blame, it's the people that don't keep the bulk of the pieces they buy, they just see an opportunity to make money by buying up items purely to resell. This causes a number of the dealers to withhold certain items so they can get a share of the action.

Eventually the average collector becomes so annoyed they decide to restrict their spending. It's a bit like pyramid selling, the ones first into the game make a killing, any subsequent people that buy at the higher prices hoping to sell bigger eventually end up with a heap of overpriced stock. Of course the hard part is to pick when the collectable is heading for a dive, good luck with that ;)

I don't understand why people pay big money for retired King & Country sets when they keep making more, and it's usually much better. Go figure?
 
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I agree the new stuff is better than the old stuff. Why pay an arm and a leg for old German motorcycles when there are three new much better ones to chose from
 
The market for K & C is increasing. K & C is not going to be making more if they don't see the sale. Andy is trying to satisfy what he sees as the appetite for more. Yes, it's hard to keep up but I don't really try anymore. It's too expensive but I don't really want to sell off my old K & C to do that.
 
I did not start this thread about ebay values, but the financial wear and tear on the average collector and whether this glut would cause a falling out of collectors who financially could not nor should not, had tried to buy it all. Somedays, it seems like Andy is no longer interested in spacing stuff out. It is as if he realizes K/C peak is now and that it is finite with the boom eventually to end. He has to know that the average collector will run out of cash, credit and other ,if pushed too hard and too regular, by an all out production assault, such as it is now...I am asking why now and why sooooo much? Michael
 
I collect a wide range of scales and makes such as K & C, NMA, Patriot, Honour Bound, Corgi, Dragon, Product Enterprises etc. And all of them seem to be expanding their range. Like everyone else I don't have unilimted finances and have had to narrow my collecting theme even more than usual. I suspect other collectors have had to do the same, so I can't see who is going to buy all this stuff. Afterall this sector is only a relatively small part of the model collecting hobby.
 
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A quick dealer perspective ...

If these new sets were only being sold to current collectors, then I agree - the market would quickly be saturated as people ran out of funds and space.

However, as you can see on this forum, the number of collectors is growing rapidly. New collectors make more room for the industry to expand. While most individual collectors will no longer buy entire ranges, overall the range will sell as smaller collectors buy one here and one there.

I think that K&C retired craziness just shows how many new collectors are passionately coming onto the scene. It's not the same people trading back and forth over and over again.

As a dealer we can sense the influx of new collectors. That is the hope for the toy soldier world.

Pete
 
OzDigger said:
I collect a wide range of scales and makes such as K & C, NMA, Patriot, Honour Bound, Corgi, Dragon, Product Enterprises etc. And all of them seem to be expanding their range. Like everyone else I don't have unilimted finances and have had to narrow my collecting theme even more than usual. I suspect other collectors have had to do the same, so I can't see who is going to buy all this stuff. Afterall this sector is only a relatively small part of the model collecting hobby.
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Taking up what Oz says, I can only think that Andy, Rick, Ana, etc. see that the market or the demand must be expanding so they're trying to service those new collectors coming into the hobby. Otherwise, there is no explanation. A popular expression from the old garment trade here in the US is "you gotta move the merchandise." Even as an attorney, the former head of our section would use that phrase. So, if these guys are not moving the merchandise, there is going to be contraction. However, the more you move, the more you're going to make.

They must be moving the merchandise.
 
I think i'm going to adopt a buy what i like system.I'm never going to be able to get it all (or display it)so i'll just get stuff that really does it for me.I think after ruminating on it yesterday i'm going with WW1 instead of ACW.Its in my blood.

Rob
 
The Reason I Submitted My Thread Yesterday Was Explained Even Better By Mad. But Nija, Even Though I Am A True Collector You Would Not Be All There If You Were Not Concerned About The Sizeable Amount Of Investment It Takes To Collect And What May Happen To It. I Have Had A Great Time Collecting And Enjoying My Figures And Dioramas But At A Time Like This It Makes Me Wonder How Sane I Have Been Spending This Kind Of Money On Toy Soldiers. I Have Seen The Baseball Card Market Get Flooded, With The Result Of Overkill And Shows Going Away. Ijust Do Not Want To See The Toy Soldier Industry Go The Same Way. Resale Does Mean Something Even To A True Collector. As Another Dealer Pointed Out You Do Not Want To Get Round Tripped On The Value. Having Said That Boy I Love The Stuff , And Andy Please Make A Jagdtiger. Thanks
 
The simple answer is each collector has to decide for himself. But no one should feel pressured by "Labels" to not act in his own best interests!!

1. Be careful of Credit Card Debt.....who wants to add 19 to 26% on top?

2. Don't be fooled by Low Interest Rates.....they won't last.

3. Buy what you like, and as Mad said if you have some older inventory that

suddenly is bringing $300 or $400 well there is 4 or 5 new sets!

4. Some people complain about certain type auctions "Buy It Now"....

Okay in 9 years roughly 80% of my auctions end with Buy It Now because

buyers that are looking for an item, in many cases want it NOW....not 7 days

from now when they might be away from the auction.

How do I determine my Buy It Now Price? Research....how tough is that?

If an item sells for $350 am I going to start it for $9? And do what? Watch

it sit at $100 for 6 days when one just sold for $350?? Am I nuts?

I am selling it because there is something I want, and if I can turn one old

set into 4 new sets everyone wins......Andy, my dealer, and me....everyone

except the credit card companies.

So do what you must, but be smart! A collection that is paid for, and assists

you in adding to it is more enjoyable then a collection financed by Visa at

19.6%

If a couple of meatballs want to label you an "Investor" because you are

smart about your financial position tell them where to "Step Off" You are the

one at the end of the month paying the bills not them.

Just my thoughts!

Njja:) :) :)
 
Interesting thread ,I had wondered the same thing myself

especialy from a dealers point of view.I guess they dont

have too much choice about carrying at least some of all the

new releases if they want to hold thier customer base.Their must

be a few groaning under the weight of all the new releases.

From my perspective I like all the choice available, although

it has made me delay purchasing decisions while I`wait too

see whats being released next. Even if I could afford it I dont

think I would buy everything as I have found in the past when

my collection reaches a certain size ,everything tends to get

lost in the crowd.
 
To add further dealer perspective; I have been selling K & C for about 4 and 1/2 years. Initially, all I sold was WWII. I did well with the product right from the start. As Andy added new lines and added on to others, I started to carry the new lines and addons to older lines, in a sense breaking out of my WWII comfort zone.

What I discovered was my customer base began to grow for one simple reason; not everyone collects WWII, so by adding new eras, I was adding new customers who collect Napoleonics, AWI, etc. No greater example of this is the new Saracen and Crusader line; I am amazed at how many new customers this line has brought to me, and most of them basically say the same thing; all they collect is ancients. Iv'e also had WWII customers dabble in Alamo, Saracen and Crusaders, etc. I've got several ACW only collector customers who called and emailed me the past couple of days saying as soon as the ACW figures are out, they are in. Same deal with WWI, I've got three customers who collect WWI sets and want the new K & C Germans; prior to that, none had bought figure one of K & C.

My point is if you try to collect all eras, you will drive yourself nuts (or bankrupt), so even though this has been said 9,000 times already, collect what you like. If you are a WWII ETO collector, do that, but if you want to dabble in other eras, go ahead. I think Louis, who has the largest K & C collection I know of, does not collect all eras, he simply collects what he likes.....................

George Guerriero
www.mmtoysoldiers.com
 
All of this production could be to establish Market Share.

These crazy stragetys flow out of the business schools (Harvard, Wharton)

I experienced it first hand in the early 1990's.

It was said that the Home Improvement Business would be a 100 Billion dollar

industry by 2000, so all the players strived to grab market share. The

thought was our 1 Billion dollar business would grow to 20 Billion if we had a

20% share of the marketplace........why we would be bigger then Coca Cola!

Well it proved true, but people always need to repair or improve their homes.

The Military Minature marketplace is fueled by discretionary funds that are

directly related to the economy, and personal financial situations. They do

not have to grow....they can level off or even decline.

So it would appear that the various manufacters may be attempting to stake

their claim on a certain percentage of what they believe to be a multi-billion

dollar future marketplace.

Who knows? One thing is certain, it will be a difficult task, and many won't

finish the journey.

Njja:) :)
 
Njja said:
The simple answer is each collector has to decide for himself. But no one should feel pressured by "Labels" to not act in his own best interests!!

1. Be careful of Credit Card Debt.....who wants to add 19 to 26% on top?

2. Don't be fooled by Low Interest Rates.....they won't last.

3. Buy what you like, and as Mad said if you have some older inventory that

suddenly is bringing $300 or $400 well there is 4 or 5 new sets!

4. Some people complain about certain type auctions "Buy It Now"....

Okay in 9 years roughly 80% of my auctions end with Buy It Now because

buyers that are looking for an item, in many cases want it NOW....not 7 days

from now when they might be away from the auction.

How do I determine my Buy It Now Price? Research....how tough is that?

If an item sells for $350 am I going to start it for $9? And do what? Watch

it sit at $100 for 6 days when one just sold for $350?? Am I nuts?

I am selling it because there is something I want, and if I can turn one old

set into 4 new sets everyone wins......Andy, my dealer, and me....everyone

except the credit card companies.

So do what you must, but be smart! A collection that is paid for, and assists

you in adding to it is more enjoyable then a collection financed by Visa at

19.6%

If a couple of meatballs want to label you an "Investor" because you are

smart about your financial position tell them where to "Step Off" You are the

one at the end of the month paying the bills not them.

Just my thoughts!

Njja:) :) :)
Click to expand...



THE SOUND OF APPLAUSE FILLED THE ROOM................................:D
 
Just Remember one case study - Beanie Babies - they were hot and now they are not. I remember when some of those would be $500 for $20 bear !

Fads come and they go and so do National Economy's - worldwide !

Buy what you like - because you never know how long you might have to look at it.....:D
 
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