Its time for the Campaign of K&C Seminole Indians ! (1 Viewer)

Guys

How many times have we heard Andy say - NO or NEVER ?

Like : "NO - I will not sell any late World War I figures now - we will be starting at 1914 and take one year at a time."

Or : "Sorry Ron, Never Again we will do Civil War Figures..."

And : "NO - We won't be doing any polystone planes anymore..."

I am sure Louis, Brad and other who have known Andy for a long time can contribute to this list ! ;)

So - Time to bring up the ....

OLD GUARD ! :eek: :eek:
 

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The Campaign Continues ...... :D :D :D

The Second Seminole Indian War !

1835 - 1842



The Second Seminole War, also known as the Florida War, was a conflict from 1835 to 1842 in Florida between various groups of Native Americans collectively known as Seminoles and the United States, part of a series of conflicts called the Seminole Wars. The Second Seminole War, often referred to as the Seminole War, was the most expensive Indian War fought by the United States, and lasted longer than any war involving the United States between the American Revolution and the Vietnam War.


Background



The Treaty of Moultrie Creek provided for a reservation in central Florida for the Seminoles.
The United States acquired Florida from Spain via the Adams-Onís Treaty and took possession in 1821. Bands from various tribes in the southeastern United States had moved into the unoccupied lands in Florida in the preceding century. These included Alabamas, Choctaws, Yamasees, Yuchis and Creek people. The Creeks were the largest group, and included Lower Creeks and Upper Creeks, and both Hitchiti- and Muscogee-speakers. One group of Hitchiti-speakers, the Mikasuki, settled around what is now Lake Miccosukee near Tallahassee. Another group of Hitchiti-speakers settled around the Alachua Prairie in what is now Alachua County. The Spanish in St. Augustine began calling the Alachua Creeks Cimarrones, which roughly meant "wild ones" or "runaways", and which is the probable origin of "Seminole". This name was eventually also applied to the other groups in Florida, although the Native Americans still regarded themselves as members of different tribes. Other groups in Florida at the time of the Seminole Wars included "Spanish Indians", so called because it was believed that they were descended from Calusas, and "rancho Indians", persons of Native American ancestry, possibly both Calusa and Creek, and mixed Native American/Spanish ancestry, living at Spanish/Cuban fishing camps on the Florida coast.[1]
The United States had already fought one war with the Native Americans in Florida while Florida still belonged to Spain (the First Seminole War). Now that Florida belonged to the United States, the Seminoles were again a problem for the government. In 1823 the government negotiated the Treaty of Moultrie Creek with the Seminoles, establishing a reservation for them in the middle of the state. Six chiefs, however, were allowed to keep their villages along the Apalachicola River.[2]


This view of a Seminole village shows the log cabins they lived in prior to the disruptions of the Second Seminole War.
The Seminoles slowly settled into the reservation, although there were isolated clashes with whites. Fort King was built near the reservation agency, at the site of present-day Ocala, and by early 1827 the Army could report that the Seminoles were on the reservation and Florida was peaceful. This peace lasted for five years, during which time there were repeated calls for the Seminoles to be sent to west of the Mississippi. The Seminoles were opposed to any such move, and especially to the suggestion that they join their Creek relations. Most whites regarded the Seminoles as simply Creeks who had recently moved to Florida, while the Seminoles claimed Florida as their home, and denied that they had any connection with the Creeks.[3]
The status of runaway slaves was a continuing irritation between Seminoles and whites. Seminoles and slave catchers argued over the ownership of slaves. New plantations in Florida increased the pool of slaves who could run away to the Seminoles. Worried about the possibility of an Indian uprising and/or a slave rebellion, Governor DuVal requested additional Federal troops for Florida. Instead, Fort King was closed in 1828. The Seminoles, short of food and finding the hunting becoming poorer on the reservation, were wandering off of it more often. Also in 1828, Andrew Jackson, the old enemy of the Seminoles, was elected President of the United States. In 1830 Congress passed the Indian Removal Act. All problems with the Seminoles were to be solved by moving them to west of the Mississippi.[4]
 
Remember !

BEFORE THERE WAS THE APACHE, CHEYENNE, UTE, AND SIOUX - There were the SEMINOLES !


:D ;) :D :)
 
I have to agree with Ron about Andy saying no or never. In 2005, when I first met him, he said he wouldn't do WW I (he now disputes whether he said never) and later on at Louis' apartment, he said he wouldn't do Warbirds anymore (the wood cracks, etc.). I'm sure there are many other examples.

I'm sure right now doing Seminoles is the last thing on his mind and he's probably a little irritated that people are asking so soon after he asked about the Real West but it never hurts to plant a little seed and, as the saying goes, if you don't ask, you don't get.

You may never see Seminoles but ya never know.
 
I have to agree with Ron about Andy saying no or never. In 2005, when I first met him, he said he wouldn't do WW I (he now disputes whether he said never) and later on at Louis' apartment, he said he wouldn't do Warbirds anymore (the wood cracks, etc.). I'm sure there are many other examples.

I'm sure right now doing Seminoles is the last thing on his mind and he's probably a little irritated that people are asking so soon after he asked about the Real West but it never hurts to plant a little seed and, as the saying goes, if you don't ask, you don't get.

You may never see Seminoles but ya never know.

Andy treats the word "never" like Bill Clinton treats the word "is" -- he has his own unique definition. Andy's definition of the word "never" is "until such time as the subject appeals to me, I have an unexpected opportunity, or decide it will be profitable" . . . :p:D;):rolleyes:
 
The United States Government Indian Service Medal !

Indian Campaign Medal

Obverse of Indian Campaign Medal
Awarded by Department of the Army
Type Medal


The Indian Campaign Medal is a decoration of the United States Army which was first created in 1905. The medal was retroactively awarded to any soldier of the U.S. Army who had participated in military actions against Native American Indians between the years of 1790 to 1891.
The United States Department of the Army declared the following fourteen campaigns as credible service to the Indian Campaign Medal:[1]
Miami Campaign, part of the Northwest Indian War (January, 1790–August, 1795).
Battle of Tippecanoe, part of Tecumseh's War (September 21–November 18, 1811).
Creek Campaigns or Creek War (July 27, 1813–August 9, 1814 and February, 1836–July, 1837).
Seminole Campaigns or Seminole Wars (November 20, 1817–October 31, 1818; December 28, 1835–August 14, 1842; and December 15, 1855–May, 1858).
Black Hawk Campaign or Black Hawk War (April 26–September, 1832).
Comanche Campaign (1867–1875).
Modoc Campaign or Modoc War (1872–1873).
Apache Campaigns or Apache Wars (1873 and 1885–1886).
Little Big Horn Campaign or Black Hills War (1876–1877).
Nez Perce Campaign or Nez Perce War (1877).
Bannock Campaign or Bannock War (1878).
Cheyenne Campaign or Cheyenne War (1878–1879).
Ute Campaign or Ute War (September, 1879–November, 1880).
Pine Ridge Campaign (November, 1890–January, 1891).

The Indian Campaign Medal was issued as a one-time decoration only and there were no devices or service stars authorized for those who had participated in multiple actions. The only attachment authorized to the medal was the silver citation star, awarded for meritorious or heroic conduct. The silver citation star was the predecessor of the Silver Star and was awarded to eleven soldiers between 1865 and 1891.

In the mid-20th century, the Army declared the Indian Campaign Medal obsolete and began an effort, under pressure, to collect and destroy original and reproduced Indian Campaign Medals. This was due in large part to the notion that the Indian Campaign Medal represented an effort to subjugate a culture and its people. In the modern age, the Indian Campaign Medal is one of the most difficult antique decorations to locate.
 

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Although they were outdistanced by mounted indians, most of the army engaged in fighting the Seminoles and the plains tribes were Infantry. The Mexican Army figures from the Alamo and 1840's U.S. Infantry would make some great displays. Not to mention U.S. Infantry and Seminoles in the swamps.


Wars are, of course, as a rule to be avoided; but they are far better than certain kinds of peace.

Theodore Roosevelt
 
I have to agree with Ron about Andy saying no or never. In 2005, when I first met him, he said he wouldn't do WW I (he now disputes whether he said never) and later on at Louis' apartment, he said he wouldn't do Warbirds anymore (the wood cracks, etc.). I'm sure there are many other examples.

I'm sure right now doing Seminoles is the last thing on his mind and he's probably a little irritated that people are asking so soon after he asked about the Real West but it never hurts to plant a little seed and, as the saying goes, if you don't ask, you don't get.

You may never see Seminoles but ya never know.

Brad

I just ant to expand the REAL WEST Range - to include the SEMINOLES - the since the Seminole Nation has a history in the WEST - they should be included - IMHO. :D

Here is some facts of the Seminoles of Oklahoma

Seminole Nation of Oklahoma

Seminole Nation of Oklahoma
Total population
15,567

Regions with significant populations
United States (Oklahoma)
Languages
English, Creek language, Mikasuki language
Religion
Christianity, traditional tribal religion
Related ethnic groups
Muskogean peoples: Apalache, Apalachicola, Alabama, Coushatta, Miccosukee, Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, and Muscogee Creek
The Seminole Nation of Oklahoma is one of two federally recognized Seminole tribes — the other being the Seminole Tribe of Florida. Other traditional Seminole communities remain unrecognized.


The Seminole people originated in Florida and were part of the Muscogee Creek Confederacy. They are the descendants of Creek Apalache and Apalachicola, and also African-American peoples, who found refuge from European-American encroachment in the swamps of northern Florida in the 18th and early 19th centuries.

The War of 1812 and subsequent warfare caused in great increase in immigration of Muscogeean peoples into Seminole lands. The 1823 population of Seminoles was estimated at 5000, but three of the bloodiest wars fought by the US government decimated the Seminole population: the First Seminole War of 1817-18, the Second Seminole War of 1835-42, and the Third Seminole War of 1855-58. During this bloodshed, most of the tribe relocated to Indian Territory, following the signing of the Treaty of Payne's Landing in 1832. The first Seminoles arrived in Indian Territory in 1832, and by 1842, 3612 Seminoles settled in the west. The Seminoles remaining in Florida gained their own reservation in the early 20th century.

The Seminoles in Indian Territory were confined to the Muscogee Creek Reservation and forced to follow their laws. Two bands of Seminoles upset by this situation left for Mexico in 1849, led by John Horse and Wild Cat. Finally in 1856, the United States allowed the Seminole to govern their own reservation, in what is now Seminole County, Oklahoma.

After the tribal government was dismantled by the Curtis Act of 1898 and tribal lands were broken up by the Dawes Allotment Act of 1887, the tribe was eventually able to restore its government under the Oklahoma Indian Welfare Act and regain jurisdiction over its land in 1935. In 1970 the tribal council reorganized to more closely follow traditional Seminole government structure.
 
I'll say this Ron,its one of the most researched forum campaigns ever:)

Rob
 
The Second SEMINOLE INDIAN WAR !

1835 - 1842

Continues....

Treaty of Payne's Landing

In the spring of 1832 the Seminoles on the reservation were called to a meeting at Payne's Landing on the Oklawaha River. The treaty negotiated there called for the Seminoles to move west, if the land were found to be suitable. They were to be settled on the Creek reservation and become part of the Creek tribe. The delegation of seven chiefs who were to inspect the new reservation did not leave Florida until October 1832.

After touring the area for several months and conferring with the Creeks who had already been settled there, the seven chiefs signed on March 28, 1833 a statement that the new land was acceptable. Upon their return to Florida, however, most of the chiefs renounced the statement, claiming that they had not signed it, or that they had been forced to sign it, and in any case, that they did not have the power to decide for all the tribes and bands that resided on the reservation. The villages in the area of the Apalachicola River were more easily persuaded, however, and went west in 1834.

The United States Senate finally ratified the Treaty of Payne's Landing in April 1834. The treaty had given the Seminoles three years to move west of the Mississippi. The government interpreted the three years as starting 1832, and expected the Seminoles to move in 1835. Fort King was reopened in 1834. A new Seminole agent, Wiley Thompson, had been appointed in 1834, and the task of persuading the Seminoles to move fell to him.

Thompson called the chiefs together at Fort King in October 1834 to talk to them about the removal to the west. The Seminoles informed Thompson that they had no intention of moving, and that they did not feel bound by the Treaty of Payne's Landing. Thompson then requested reinforcements for Fort King and Fort Brooke, reporting that, the Indians after they had received the Annuity, purchased an unusually large quantity of Powder & Lead. General Clinch also warned Washington that the Seminoles did not intend to move, and that more troops would be needed to force them to move. In March 1835 Thompson called the chiefs together to read a letter from Andrew Jackson to them.

In his letter, Jackson said, Should you ... refuse to move, I have then directed the Commanding officer to remove you by force. The chiefs asked for thirty days to respond. A month later the Seminole chiefs told Thompson that they would not move west. Thompson and the chiefs began arguing, and General Clinch had to intervene to prevent bloodshed. Eventually, eight of the chiefs agreed to move west, but asked to delay the move until the end of the year, and Thompson and Clinch agreed.

Five of the most important of the Seminole chiefs, including Micanopy of the Alachua Seminoles, had not agreed to the move. In retaliation, Thompson declared that those chiefs were removed from their positions. As relations with the Seminoles deteriorated, Thompson forbade the sale of guns and ammunition to the Seminoles. Osceola, a young warrior beginning to be noticed by the whites, was particularly upset by the ban, feeling that it equated Seminoles with slaves and said, The white man shall not make me black. I will make the white man red with blood; and then blacken him in the sun and rain ... and the buzzard live upon his flesh. In spite of this, Thompson considered Osceola to be a friend, and gave him a rifle. Later, though, when Osceola was causing trouble, Thompson had him locked up at Fort King for a night. The next day, in order to secure his release, Osceola agreed to abide by the Treaty of Payne's Landing and to bring his followers in.

The situation grew worse. A group of whites assaulted some Indians sitting around a campfire. Two more Indians came up during the assault and opened fire on the whites. Three whites were wounded and one Indian was killed and one wounded. In August 1835 Private Kinsley Dalton (for whom Dalton, Georgia is named) was killed by Seminoles as he was carrying the mail from Fort Brooke to Fort King. In November Chief Charley Emathla, wanting no part of a war, led his people towards Fort Brooke where they were to board ships to go west. This was considered a betrayal by other Seminoles. Osceola met Charlie Emathla on the trail and killed him.

PICTURE OF CHIEF OSCEOLA
 

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Ron, I just have to ask. Are you a Florida State fan? Is that where this is coming from? :D
 
The Second Seminole Indian War

1835 - 1842


Continues .....


Gentlemen - this is a big event - I actually grew up a few miles from this famous site ! :D

The Dade Massacre

White settlers massacred by the Seminoles. From an 1836 book.

Illustration from an 1836 book on the murder of a woman by Seminoles
As the realization that the Seminoles would resist relocation sank in, Florida began preparing for war. The St. Augustine Militia asked the War Department for the loan of 500 muskets. Five hundred volunteers were mobilized under Brig. Gen. Richard K. Call. Indian war parties raided farms and settlements, and families fled to forts, large towns, or out of the territory altogether.

A war party led by Osceola captured a Florida militia supply train, killing eight of its guards and wounding six others. Most of the goods taken were recovered by the militia in another fight a few days later. Sugar plantations along the Atlantic coast south of St. Augustine were destroyed, with many of the slaves on the plantations joining the Seminoles.

The U.S. Army had 11 companies, about 550 soldiers, stationed in Florida. Fort King had only one company of soldiers, and it was feared that they might be overrun by the Seminoles. There were three companies at Fort Brooke, with another two expected momentarily, so it was decided to send two companies to Fort King. On December 23, 1835 the two companies, totalling 110 men, left Fort Brooke under the command of Maj. Francis L. Dade. Seminoles shadowed the marching soldiers for five days. On December 28 the Seminoles ambushed the soldiers, and wiped out the command.

Only three men survived the massacre, and one, Edwin De Courcey, was hunted down and killed by a Seminole the next day. Two survivors, Ransome Clarke and Joseph Sprague, returned to Fort Brooke. Only Clarke, who died of his wounds a few years later, left any account of the battle from the Army's perspective. Joseph Sprague was unharmed and lived quite a while longer, but was not able to give an account of the battle because he had sought immediate refuge in a nearby pond.

The Seminoles lost just three men, with five wounded. On the same day as the Dade Massacre, Osceola and his followers shot and killed from ambush Wiley Thompson and six others outside of Fort King.

Subsequently Major Ethan Allen Hitchcock was among those who found the remains of the Dade party in February. In his journal he wrote a haunting account of the discovery, then vented his bitter discontent with the conflict: "The government is in the wrong, and this is the chief cause of the persevering opposition of the Indians, who have nobly defended their country against our attempt to enforce a fraudulent treaty. The natives used every means to avoid a war, but were forced into it by the tyranny of our government.".

On December 29 General Clinch left Fort Drane (recently established on Clinch's plantation, about twenty miles (32 km) northwest of Fort King) with 750 soldiers, including 500 volunteers on an enlistment due to end January 1, 1836. They were going to a Seminole stronghold called the Cove of the Withlacoochee, what is now known as Lake Tsala Apopka, an area of many lakes on the southwest side of the Withlacoochee River.

When they reached the river, they could not find the ford, and Clinch had his regular troops ferried across the river in a single canoe they had found. Once they were across and had relaxed, the Seminoles attacked. The troops only saved themselves by fixing bayonets and charging the Seminoles, at the cost of four dead and 59 wounded. The militia provided cover as the Army troops then withdrew across the river.


On January 6, 1836 a band of Seminoles attacked the coontie plantation of William Cooley on the New River (in present-day Fort Lauderdale, Florida), killing his wife and children and the children's tutor. The other residents of the New River area and of the Biscayne Bay country to the south fled to Key West.

On January 17, volunteers and Seminoles met south of St. Augustine at the Battle of Dunlawton. The volunteers lost four men, with thirteen wounded.

On January 19, 1836 the Navy sloop-of-war Vandalia was dispatched to Tampa Bay from Pensacola. On the same day 57 marines were dispatched from Key West to help man Fort Brooke.
 

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The Second Seminole Indian War

1835 - 1842


Continues.....



General Gaines' expedition

The regular American army was very small at the time, with less than 7,500 men manning a total of 53 posts. It was spread thin, with the Canadian border to guard, coastal fortifications to man, and especially, Indians to move west and then watch and keep separated from white settlers. Temporary needs for additional troops were filled by state and territory militias, and by self-organized volunteer units. As news and rumors of the fighting spread, action was taken on many levels. Maj. Gen. Winfield Scott was placed in charge of the war. Congress appropriated US$620,000 for the war. Volunteer companies began forming in Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina. General Gaines put together a force of 1,100 regulars and volunteers in New Orleans and sailed with them to Fort Brooke.


Viewing the demise of Major Dade and his Command
When Gaines reached Fort Brooke, he found it low on supplies. Believing that General Scott had sent supplies to Fort King, Gaines led his men on to Fort King. Along the road they found the site of the Dade Massacre, and buried the bodies in three mass graves. The force reached Fort King after nine days, only to find it was very short on supplies. After receiving seven days worth of rations from General Clinch at Fort Drane, Gaines headed back for Fort Brooke. Hoping to accomplish something for his efforts, Gaines took his men on a different route back to Fort Brooke, intending to engage the Seminoles in their stronghold in the Cove of the Withlacoochee River. Due to a lack of knowledge of the country, the Gaines party reached the same point on the Withlacoochee where Clinch had met the Seminoles one-and-a-half months earlier, and it took another day to find the ford while the two sides exchanged gunfire across the river.

When a crossing was attempted at the ford of the Withlacoochee, Lt. James Izard was wounded (and later died). General Gaines was stuck. He could not cross the river, and if he returned to Fort King his men would be out of rations. Gaines had his men constructed a fortification, called Camp Izard, and sent word to General Clinch. Gaines hoped that the Seminoles would concentrate around Camp Izard, and that Clinch's forces could then hit the Seminoles in their flank, crushing them between the two forces. Unfortunately, General Scott, who was in charge of the war, ordered Clinch to stay at Fort Drane. Gaines's men were soon reduced to eating their horses and mules, and an occasional dog, while a battle went on for eight days. Still at Fort Drane, Clinch requested that General Scott change his orders and allow him to go to Gaines' aid. Clinch finally decided to disobey Scott and left to join Gaines just one day before Scott's permission to do so arrived at Fort Drane. Clinch and his men reached Camp Izard on March 6, chasing away the Seminoles.
 

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Andy

Are you reading this wonderful thread ?

Can you see how the SEMINOLES would make a fine addition to the REAL WEST range ! :D

So colorful - they could sell themselves ! :cool:

Ron
 
I can not see this period in history as a great seller.The indians in the AR series looked alittle off to me.The pictures you have shown on this thread do nothing but make me think they would look alittle cartoonish if made.Sorry Ron a big no for me.Simmo.:eek:
 

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