Judgement at Nuremberg (1 Viewer)

[Peter Reuss]

I just ran across this on PBS today. What a movie!! Anyone else seen it?

Here's what Wikipidia has to say:

Judgment at Nuremberg (1961) is a fictionalized film account of the post-World War II Nuremberg Trials, written by Abby Mann and directed by Stanley Kramer, starring Spencer Tracy, Burt Lancaster, Richard Widmark, Marlene Dietrich, Maximilian Schell, Judy Garland, Montgomery Clift, Werner Klemperer, and William Shatner. Originally written for television,[1] the film depicts the trial of certain judges who executed Nazi law. Such a trial did occur: the film was inspired by the Judges' Trial before the U.S. Nuremberg Military Tribunal in 1947. A key thread in the film's plot involves a "race defilement" trial known as the "Feldenstein case". In this fictionalized case, based on the real life Katzenberger Trial, an elderly Jewish man was cited for an improper relationship with an "Aryan" woman, and put to death in 1942.

The film examines the questions of individual complicity in crimes committed by the state. It is never propagandistic, and does not shy away from difficult issues. For example, defense attorney Hans Rolfe (Schell) raises such thorny issues as the support of the U.S. Supreme Court for the practice of eugenics, and Winston Churchill's words of praise for Adolf Hitler. One noteworthy scene is the testimony of Rudolph Petersen, a German civilian baker, who, considered mentally incompetent, was sterilized by the Nazis in accordance with their social laws. As played by Montgomery Clift, Petersen's nervousness about recounting the horrific tale of his past is visible from the start; he shifts and fidgets constantly on the stand and stammers in his speech. The tension is further amplified when he is cross-examined by defense attorney Rolfe, who reveals that Petersen was removed from school for an inability to learn and because his mother was also deemed mentally incompetent.


Maximilian Schell (left) and Richard WidmarkDuring the course of the trial, prosecuting attorney Col. Tad Lawson (Richard Widmark) shows the actual historical footage filmed by American soldiers after the liberation of the concentration camps. The footage and its use in a mainsteam American film is historically significant. It was one of the first attempts by the American film industry and mass media to expose the American public at large to the full nature and scope of the Nazi atrocities.

The movie won the Academy Award for Best Actor (Maximilian Schell) and Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material from Another Medium, and was nominated for Best Actor in a Leading Role (Spencer Tracy), Best Actor in a Supporting Role (Montgomery Clift), Best Actress in a Supporting Role (Judy Garland), Best Art Direction-Set Decoration, Black-and-White, Best Cinematography, Black-and-White, Best Costume Design, Black-and-White, Best Director, Best Film Editing and Best Picture. This is one of the few times that a film had multiple entries in the same category (Tracy and Schell for Best Actor), and Schell was the first Best Actor winner to be billed fifth.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Now I'm going to have to watch the movie. I saw it on PBS last night, saw a young William Shatner (Captain Kirk) followed by a scene with Werner Klemperer (Colonel Klink from Hogan's Heroes) and I just couldn't take it seriously, so I changed the channel.

 

[Peter Reuss]

Wow - I was so into it that I didn't even notice Captain Kirk.

Couldn't miss Colonel Klink, though

The movie isn't exactly fast paced (as per the time period), but it asks some very hard questions. Amazing when you consider that it came out so soon after the war. I wonder how much of the Cold War played into that...the emphasis was made that the US needed the support of the Germans against the USSR - so the punishments shouldn't be heavy. It ended with the reminder that those imprisoned for life for Nazi war crimes had been freed by 1961.

Much to ponder...

 

[jazzeum]

I've seen the movie about three and four times and it is indeed a classic. I first saw it when I was young and found it very moving.

Even today, after having done some reading (but not enough), I still can't fathom what makes people do certain things to other people.

 

[Rob]

I've seen the movie about three and four times and it is indeed a classic. I first saw it when I was young and found it very moving.

Even today, after having done some reading (but not enough), I still can't fathom what makes people do certain things to other people.

Yes where does the ability to commit horrendous acts against other people come from?.The evil blind hatred of the Nazis to Jewish people,Poles,Russians and others is trully astounding.Thank God they are gone and they must never return.

Rob

 

[Peter Reuss]

Yes where does the ability to commit horrendous acts against other people come from?.The evil blind hatred of the Nazis to Jewish people,Poles,Russians and others is trully astounding.Thank God they are gone and they must never return.

Rob

But is humanity ever done with this?? The story from Germany has ended, but what about places like Kosovo, Darfur...

Hate continues.

 

[Rob]

True,sad but true.

Rob

 

[binder001]

A truly GREAT movie with a lot to say on many levels, to many ages and eras.

The movie opens with my absolute favorite piece of Signal Corps footage - the blasting of the giant swastika off the Nuremberg sports Palace. Nothing else sums up absolute victory so well in such a short time.

Gary

 

[CannonFodder1971]

I haven't seen that one yet. I think with all the endless TV courtroom drama series there is now perhaps a public exhaustion with the genre. (Even good stage plays or films - '12 Angry Men', 'To Kill a Mockingbird', 'A Few Good Men', 'Sophie Scholl: Die letzten Tags' - do not get the same TV repeat rate on account of the deluge of TV trash). I'll track it down on DvD.

 

[sceic2]

Pete, I don’t know how people on the forum will react to my comments concerning this particular movie, but I have never been one to avoid expressing my opinion. Economic Development Professionals are not known as shrinking violets nor do we suffer from an insecure ego. And always remember, I am a very loyal American. I am just an average American who is very disappointed in the manner in which my government has conducted itself over the years in such un-American like ways. And above all, I love my country above all others. I served it, honorably, loyally and with dedication for 20 years. I was stupid enough to believe the education I received during the 50’s about my country and how “right” and “just” and “democratic” it is (?). Reality has set in and presented me with an entirely different reality.

Anyway, I think this film is one of many that were produced at the end of the war as sad attempts to make us (US) feel better about or to justify our actions in WWII. Most films produced about the US involvement in WWII between 1942 and sometime in the middle 80’s made this sorry attempt to convince us (US) that we are always the righteous one’s and that “God is on America’s side.” Our government has proven more than once that “might does make right.”

We tried the Nazis leaders for waging “wars of aggression” and we should have. But it was the Allies that (in no particular order):
- Used carpet-bombing on civilian targets to “demoralize” the population (Bomber Harris and General Curtis LeMay).
- Used phosphorus and napalm to ignite firestorms in Europe and Japan that destroyed more people in truly horrific ways than the two atomic weapons we dropped on Japan combined (same Generals).
- Used two atomic weapons on civilian targets while using 2nd Army HQ as an excuse for Hiroshima and weapons production in Nagasaki as its excuse.
- Failed to put the Japanese Emperor on trial for war crimes when he was a major leader in Japan’s decision-making group that lead to war and made critical war crime related decisions during the war and he was kept in position as Emperor, although with less power (thanks to FDR and his advisors in the government like Douglas MacArthur, Secretary of State Edward R. Stettinius, Jr., and Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson).
- Failed to bomb the rail transport system to the concentration camps and the crematories (General Eisenhower made the final decision)
- Failed to prosecute the Japanese involved with Unit 731 in China. The Allies wanted the results of their chemical and biological warfare “experiments” on huge numbers of Allied prisoners of war and Chinese civilians and made negotiated deals with these animals (MacArthur again), some of who are still alive today.
- Failed to prosecute the German rocket scientists (Warner VonBraun was responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the forced labor camps that worked for the German rocket program)
- Failed to think long-term and only in our short-term interest when Churchill warned us repeated about Stalin and his intentions for Eastern Europe.
- Failed to recognized the war crimes that were committed by the Church in their relationships with the Nazi’
- Failed to return confiscated personal property to the Jewish people that the Nazi’ attempted to exterminate (only late and very feeble attempts have been put in place after the greatest majority of survivors have died).

The list goes on. All you have to do is look at history and find such examples of American government behavior. Look more recently at how the US government backed the dictatorship in Viet Nam and how President Johnson concocted the Tonkin Gulf Incident. Remember the domino theory? Look at how the US supported the Chilean military coup lead by Captain General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte and the death of the legally elected President of Chile Salvador Allende Gossens and the era of the "disappeared." And there are more examples of this kind of US (us) government behavior.

Now that I have said these things:
I live in a country that allows me to say them.
I live in a country where the government does not kill journalists (as in the Russian republic over the past few years).
I live in a country that has the worst form of government ever developed but is still better than all the others.
I live in a country that hopefully learns from its past and makes the future better.
“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill

 

[erniesstudio]

Another historical point never spoken often..Thailand fought on the side of the axis..and like Japan the King was never brought to account by the allies.

 

[jazzeum]

For those who haven't seen this, it's on Turner Classic Movies at 1115 pm EST tonight.

 

[Harrytheheid]

I just wanted to congratulate you on what I think is one of the best written posts I have ever seen, on ANY forum.

Best Regards
Harry Anderson

 

[Harrytheheid]

Pete, I don’t know how people on the forum will react to my comments concerning this particular movie, but I have never been one to avoid expressing my opinion. Economic Development Professionals are not known as shrinking violets nor do we suffer from an insecure ego. And always remember, I am a very loyal American. I am just an average American who is very disappointed in the manner in which my government has conducted itself over the years in such un-American like ways. And above all, I love my country above all others. I served it, honorably, loyally and with dedication for 20 years. I was stupid enough to believe the education I received during the 50’s about my country and how “right” and “just” and “democratic” it is (?). Reality has set in and presented me with an entirely different reality.

Anyway, I think this film is one of many that were produced at the end of the war as sad attempts to make us (US) feel better about or to justify our actions in WWII. Most films produced about the US involvement in WWII between 1942 and sometime in the middle 80’s made this sorry attempt to convince us (US) that we are always the righteous one’s and that “God is on America’s side.” Our government has proven more than once that “might does make right.”

We tried the Nazis leaders for waging “wars of aggression” and we should have. But it was the Allies that (in no particular order):
- Used carpet-bombing on civilian targets to “demoralize” the population (Bomber Harris and General Curtis LeMay).
- Used phosphorus and napalm to ignite firestorms in Europe and Japan that destroyed more people in truly horrific ways than the two atomic weapons we dropped on Japan combined (same Generals).
- Used two atomic weapons on civilian targets while using 2nd Army HQ as an excuse for Hiroshima and weapons production in Nagasaki as its excuse.
- Failed to put the Japanese Emperor on trial for war crimes when he was a major leader in Japan’s decision-making group that lead to war and made critical war crime related decisions during the war and he was kept in position as Emperor, although with less power (thanks to FDR and his advisors in the government like Douglas MacArthur, Secretary of State Edward R. Stettinius, Jr., and Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson).
- Failed to bomb the rail transport system to the concentration camps and the crematories (General Eisenhower made the final decision)
- Failed to prosecute the Japanese involved with Unit 731 in China. The Allies wanted the results of their chemical and biological warfare “experiments” on huge numbers of Allied prisoners of war and Chinese civilians and made negotiated deals with these animals (MacArthur again), some of who are still alive today.
- Failed to prosecute the German rocket scientists (Warner VonBraun was responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the forced labor camps that worked for the German rocket program)
- Failed to think long-term and only in our short-term interest when Churchill warned us repeated about Stalin and his intentions for Eastern Europe.
- Failed to recognized the war crimes that were committed by the Church in their relationships with the Nazi’
- Failed to return confiscated personal property to the Jewish people that the Nazi’ attempted to exterminate (only late and very feeble attempts have been put in place after the greatest majority of survivors have died).

The list goes on. All you have to do is look at history and find such examples of American government behavior. Look more recently at how the US government backed the dictatorship in Viet Nam and how President Johnson concocted the Tonkin Gulf Incident. Remember the domino theory? Look at how the US supported the Chilean military coup lead by Captain General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte and the death of the legally elected President of Chile Salvador Allende Gossens and the era of the "disappeared." And there are more examples of this kind of US (us) government behavior.

Now that I have said these things:
I live in a country that allows me to say them.
I live in a country where the government does not kill journalists (as in the Russian republic over the past few years).
I live in a country that has the worst form of government ever developed but is still better than all the others.
I live in a country that hopefully learns from its past and makes the future better.
“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill

Sorry folks,
This is the post I mean. And YES, America contains some FINE people.

 

[OzDigger]

I live in a country that has the worst form of government ever developed but is still better than all the others.

And he started out so well

Seriously though guys, you will find that most people think they live in the best country in the world. Except for us Aussies, we know we do