K&C and Frontline - together they stand! (1 Viewer)

[GT1]

I've just posted a classified sale ad for 3 rare sets of K&C/Frontline hybrid 1987/88 glossy 24th Foot. Whether or not you're interested in buying, they are an unusual, historic, and possibly unique piece of K&C and Frontline collector history. All comments and PMs welcome.

 

[jazzeum]

It may not be all that unusual as the owners of Frontline used to work for Andy. I think there are a few instances of Frontline figures marked as K & C due to mistakes at the factory that was making both!

 

[GT1]

As always, a wise observation Brad. There was a certain amount of confusion in the early days of K&C (that's what made it so much fun!).

 

[King & Country]

Re: K&C and Frontline...

Hi Treefroggers,

Just some footnotes to GT1’s proposed sale of the above pieces.

1. The boxes are indeed original K&C “blue” boxes… even the foam looks like the original foam however…

2. This was never ever… a rare joint project between K&C and Frontline. By this time Frontline were running their own operation and K&C were using different sculptors.

3. To the very best of my knowledge (and Andy’s) we have never seen or sold such sets i.e. Frontline figures in K&C boxes.

Question: Can GT1 please tell us exactly who, where and when he bought these figures from?

4. It looks to me like someone, somewhere simply put these figures into old K&C boxes… and hey presto… a rare collection!

5. I do agree though that the figures look very nice and if you like these older “glossies” then they are a good buy but… They are most definitely NOT an “Extremely Rare K&C/ Frontline” Cooperation Venture.

Hope this info helps clear up any confusion.

All the best!
Gordon C. Neilson

 

[oberstoskar]

Thanks for clarification of the info. I wish K&C will produce a book with photos and catalogued identifications for each and every figure that was ever designed and produced by K&C. Updated photographs from K&C's HQ in Lockhart Rd would be great! But as I understood, not even K&C has a copy of each and every figure that was ever produced. I think it is a worthwhile project.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Thanks for clarification of the info. I wish K&C will produce a book with photos and catalogued identifications for each and every figure that was ever designed and produced by K&C. Updated photographs from K&C's HQ in Lockhart Rd would be great! But as I understood, not even K&C has a copy of each and every figure that was ever produced. I think it is a worthwhile project.

There are two published K&C volumes, and three more in the editting stage, which while contain photographs of all but a handful of K&C figures produced between 1984 and 2007. By the way, here is a quote from one of the volumes which may explain the figures referenced on this thread, if they are stamped "K&C" on the base:

The sculpting of [these King & Country figures from circa 1988-1990], while a step up on the earlier figures inspired by Trophy figures, was modeled on traditionally glossy toy soldiers, and indistinguishable from the common Steadfast, Trophy and Tradition glossy figures produced at the time. Much of the sculpting of K&C figures at this time was done by the two partners who owned Frontline Figures, Gerard Prime and Howard Swales, former architects who had dedicated themselves to toy soldier production.

As an interesting aside, the following anecdote, originally told to the author by Andy Neilson at the 2004 Chicago Show, and confirmed by Gerard Prime of Frontline at the 2006 Chicago Show, and proven by figures in the collection of author Lawrence Lo, illustrates some of the pitfalls of doing business in the burgeoning Chinese production market. In the early days of K&C production, Andy was approached by a female acquaintance of his from mainland China about a factory on the mainland willing to retool to produce toy soldiers if K&C would absorb the expense of retooling. Andy agreed to this upon the condition that the factory would only produce his K&C line of Toy Soldiers. Unbeknowst to Andy, this rather industrious woman made a similar private offer to Gerard Prime and Howard Swales of Frontline, who also agreed. Imagine the chagrin of both Andy and Gerard when a shipment of figures arrived at K&C’s offices sometime thereafter, the bottom of their bases duly stamped with the “K&C” logo, the only problem being they were Frontline’s glossy Zulu War figures of John Chard, Gonville Bromhead, 24th Foot and Zulus! These figures demonstrated to both the K&C and Frontline brain-trusts that they had both been had. Several of these “Frontline” figures incorrectly stamped “K&C”, including the Chard and Bromhead figures, eventually found their way into the collection of co-author Lawrence Lo.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Re: K&C and Frontline...

Hi Treefroggers,

Just some footnotes to GT1’s proposed sale of the above pieces.

1. The boxes are indeed original K&C “blue” boxes… even the foam looks like the original foam however…

2. This was never ever… a rare joint project between K&C and Frontline. By this time Frontline were running their own operation and K&C were using different sculptors.

3. To the very best of my knowledge (and Andy’s) we have never seen or sold such sets i.e. Frontline figures in K&C boxes.

Question: Can GT1 please tell us exactly who, where and when he bought these figures from?

4. It looks to me like someone, somewhere simply put these figures into old K&C boxes… and hey presto… a rare collection!

5. I do agree though that the figures look very nice and if you like these older “glossies” then they are a good buy but… They are most definitely NOT an “Extremely Rare K&C/ Frontline” Cooperation Venture.

Hope this info helps clear up any confusion.

All the best!
Gordon C. Neilson

Looks like this should clear up any confusion or speculation {sm3}

 

[norman joplin]

I think in principle the book suggested in this thread is a great idea,however having authored 8 toy soldier books,the logistics are massive,finding the items to photo for any book is a long hard process,having people co -opertate and gathering different images and resolutions, together with the finances and the time to make it work it would be a nightmare.
Maybe oberstoskar would be willing to attempt this himself ?
My best advice is stick to the excellent publications mentioned by Louis,support him and his friends and hope that someone somewhere may have all the figures and are willing to make them available for what would be the ultimate K&C reference book, a daunting task. Maybe a consortium of collectores who could allcontribute itmes may be the long term answer,than again you need someone to volunteer to oversee the project
Norman Joplin

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I think in principle the book suggested in this thread is a great idea,however having authored 8 toy soldier books,the logistics are massive,finding the items to photo for any book is a long hard process,having people co -opertate and gathering different images and resolutions, together with the finances and the time to make it work it would be a nightmare.
Maybe oberstoskar would be willing to attempt this himself ?
My best advice is stick to the excellent publications mentioned by Louis,support him and his friends and hope that someone somewhere may have all the figures and are willing to make them available for what would be the ultimate K&C reference book, a daunting task. Maybe a consortium of collectores who could allcontribute itmes may be the long term answer,than again you need someone to volunteer to oversee the project
Norman Joplin

I would think finding the items to photograph would not be an issue since Louis personally owns most of them himself. {sm3}

 

[Louis Badolato]

I would think finding the items to photograph would not be an issue since Louis personally owns most of them himself. {sm3}

Between Kevin Elliott, Lawrence Lo, Hans Hedrich and myself (the team behind the project), and with some assistance from friends like Brad Lewin, Chuck Karen and Harvey Hammer on the warbirds, we have access to all but a couple of crawling Zulu figures from 1987 and a couple of mounted officer variations from circa 1992. We have every regularly produced vehicle and diorama piece K&C ever made, many of the prototype resin vehicles K&C either never produced or later produced in a slightly different form, a couple of dozen of K&C custom made dioramas, and around 125 of the 180 or so warbirds K&C produced. I am fairly certain that, as a group, we have the widest variety of K&C products to photograph from 1984 through 2007 when the writing of the text for the book was completed and the photography, for the most part, took place.

Photography of Hans' extensive and complete LAH collection, as well as his (complete and in multiples) matt Napoleonic collection is pretty much all that remains. Kevin's health permitting, eventually we hope to publish 4 more volumes. However, with the exception of Volumes on Warbirds and Desert Warfare, virtually all of the early rare stuff has already been addressed in volumes I and III, which have already been published.

 

[ecuriel]

Between Kevin Elliott, Lawrence Lo, Hans Hedrich and myself (the team behind the project), and with some assistance from friends like Brad Lewin, Chuck Karen and Harvey Hammer on the warbirds, we have access to all but a couple of crawling Zulu figures from 1987 and a couple of mounted officer variations from circa 1992. We have every regularly produced vehicle and diorama piece K&C ever made, many of the prototype resin vehicles K&C either never produced or later produced in a slightly different form, a couple of dozen of K&C custom made dioramas, and around 125 of the 180 or so warbirds K&C produced. I am fairly certain that, as a group, we have the widest variety of K&C products to photograph from 1984 through 2007 when the writing of the text for the book was completed and the photography, for the most part, took place.

Photography of Hans' extensive and complete LAH collection, as well as his (complete and in multiples) matt Napoleonic collection is pretty much all that remains. Kevin's health permitting, eventually we hope to publish 4 more volumes. However, with the exception of Volumes on Warbirds and Desert Warfare, virtually all of the early rare stuff has already been addressed in volumes I and III, which have already been published.

Hi Louis, remember to create an index.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Hi Louis, remember to create an index.

Ed,

Speak to Kevin, the editor.:wink2: As far as I recall he didn't do an index for either of the two publishes volumes. However, the books are in chronological order by release date, and all you have to do is flip through for a photo of what you are trying to identify.

 

[MarkeytMaker]

Re: K&C and Frontline...

Hi Treefroggers,

Just some footnotes to GT1’s proposed sale of the above pieces.

1. The boxes are indeed original K&C “blue” boxes… even the foam looks like the original foam however…

2. This was never ever… a rare joint project between K&C and Frontline. By this time Frontline were running their own operation and K&C were using different sculptors.

3. To the very best of my knowledge (and Andy’s) we have never seen or sold such sets i.e. Frontline figures in K&C boxes.

Question: Can GT1 please tell us exactly who, where and when he bought these figures from?

4. It looks to me like someone, somewhere simply put these figures into old K&C boxes… and hey presto… a rare collection!

5. I do agree though that the figures look very nice and if you like these older “glossies” then they are a good buy but… They are most definitely NOT an “Extremely Rare K&C/ Frontline” Cooperation Venture.

Hope this info helps clear up any confusion.

All the best!
Gordon C. Neilson

Regarding the boxes...they clearly appear "green" and the owner says they are "green". Andy can you clarify why you say they are indeed blue?

 

[jazzeum]

You raise an interesting point about the boxes. They are green and GT1 says they are green. Moreover, they have the Frontline numbers on them, not K & C numbers so that further deepens the mystersy. Maybe, it wa the factory messing around again.

 

[GT1]

Re: K&C and Frontline...

Hi Treefroggers,

Just some footnotes to GT1’s proposed sale of the above pieces.

1. The boxes are indeed original K&C “blue” boxes… even the foam looks like the original foam however…

2. This was never ever… a rare joint project between K&C and Frontline. By this time Frontline were running their own operation and K&C were using different sculptors.

3. To the very best of my knowledge (and Andy’s) we have never seen or sold such sets i.e. Frontline figures in K&C boxes.

Question: Can GT1 please tell us exactly who, where and when he bought these figures from?

4. It looks to me like someone, somewhere simply put these figures into old K&C boxes… and hey presto… a rare collection!

5. I do agree though that the figures look very nice and if you like these older “glossies” then they are a good buy but… They are most definitely NOT an “Extremely Rare K&C/ Frontline” Cooperation Venture.

Hope this info helps clear up any confusion.

All the best!
Gordon C. Neilson

With regard to Gordon's question, as I posted on the Classified ad: "Back in 1987 or '88 I bought these 3 sets of Zulu War 24th Foot from K&C." It was from the old K&C store on Hollywood Road before the move to Pacific Place. It was on one of my regular wallet-emptying visits during lunch break from work, and before the birth of my daughter in early '89 required me to go cold turkey on collecting for a few years.

As regards the boxes, they are definitely green rather than blue. I remember way back when K&C occasionally used green boxes (sort of British racing green) for especially the 6 figure sets. I can't recall when they switched permanently to blue.

Oh, and with reference to the story about the mainland China factory that Louis posted: I've heard that story, too. Andy told me about it 20 or more years ago.

 

[Lawrence Lo]

Are the figures marked K&C or FF under their base?

 

[GT1]

Are the figures marked K&C or FF under their base?

Neither. There is no marking on the base.

 

[MarkeytMaker]

Re: K&C and Frontline...

With regard to Gordon's question, as I posted on the Classified ad: "Back in 1987 or '88 I bought these 3 sets of Zulu War 24th Foot from K&C." It was from the old K&C store on Hollywood Road before the move to Pacific Place. It was on one of my regular wallet-emptying visits during lunch break from work, and before the birth of my daughter in early '89 required me to go cold turkey on collecting for a few years.

As regards the boxes, they are definitely green rather than blue. I remember way back when K&C occasionally used green boxes (sort of British racing green) for especially the 6 figure sets. I can't recall when they switched permanently to blue.

Oh, and with reference to the story about the mainland China factory that Louis posted: I've heard that story, too. Andy told me about it 20 or more years ago.

It's a mystery set!