Kaiserliche Marine Band WW1 (1 Viewer)

[johnnybach]

I have liked the look of the Beau Geste German Naval band of WW1 in their summer uniform, for some considerable time - though as my hobby is really painting, I haven't been able to purchase castings of them to paint from this supplier, as they can only be purchase, ready painted.

I was therefore delighted to find that one of my favourite suppliers of unpainted castings - Dorset Soldiers - could supply a basic marching casting of a German Sailor of the period - and many of the Dorset Soldier range of arms/musical instruments could be adapted to fit the basic body. So, not exactly a "kit" - but a few conversions maybe qualify as one - so decided to put them here.

Armed with a picture of the Beau Geste band (downloaded from the Internet) as a guide , I ordered 18 castings - and a few musical instruments and arms that could possibly have been around at the time (1914-18) - and that could be made to fit. The castings aren't EXACTLY the same, of course - and I made a conscious effort to choose some slightly different musical instruments - but I rather liked the BG Bandsmen's Summer rig - so decided to use this as my painting guide( see a print at the rear of my castings group).

Here are the basic castings below - with two prototypes almost completed ( I like to paint one or two up first - to learn how best to tackle the process) - and the rest in various state of preparation - with a few partially completed instruments dotted about.

Note that I am using a cream matte primer coat for these lads - as I know that the Ivory paint (Humbrol), being used for the white trousers does not cover/adhere well to bare metal. I found that these figures are surprisingly uncomplicated and easy to paint ( from head down - so can hold the leg parts for ease of painting) - and I hope will look quite smart when completed. jb

 

[blaster]

Yes! I'm following this. I knew you were up to something. You were just too quiet. ^&grin rgds victor

 

[Al Fisher]

Nice work . . . it's good to see some converters and painters here! Hope more will answer up . . .

Bosun Al

 

[Obee]

JB,

I'm looking forward to see this band evolve over the coming weeks/months.

Like you I have problems with coverage of gloss white on metal, thats why I always use a spray coat of either white undercoat for light colours or grey primer for darker colours i order to give a base for the top coat.

Yes, Giles has some fine instruments to use with this band, so keep on posting progress images,

John

 

[theBaron]

Great project, John! I look forward to your next progress post.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Hi all - thanks for the responses.

Vic and Al - okay - Still here - and painting a bit each day - weather is nice and warm again - so paint dries nicely.

John - I know we both use Humbrol - and I'm slowly being drawn to using a priming coat - especially for colours such as white/Ivory - because of the coverage problem when not using it. I still prefer to use a thin matte coat of paint for darker colours - like the Oxford blue I'm using for the coatee of these figures - but Ivory just looks so much better with a matte finish undercoat. I'm also using a light grey spray of primer too - with some success on other figures nowadays. I'm off to visit Giles next week - so hope to be picking up some more surprises soon. All the best.

Brad. Thought you might like them - they are turning out nicely - here's another update on progress:



Front line-up shows Bombardon, Schellenbaum (Jingling Johnny), Drum Major, Saxhorn and Bass Cornet (really an American instrument - so unlikely to have been in this band - but I like it anyway - so have slipped one in). Note that shoes need adding to one - and bases painted for three of them. I do the bottom bits when the top parts are thoroughly dried.

The rear line - really shows how I paint them. Usually starting with faces - then working down. The paler blue of the neck-scarf is just a mix of the Oxford Blue of the jacket and Ivory of the trousers - so can be painted when both of those colours are on the pallet. It's NOT essential to get an exact shade for these - as with constant washing, the old hands are easily distinguishable from the younger recruits - as they scarves get more faded and lighter in colour. Note that I haven't tried to do the (actual) three pin-stripe lines at this scale (54mm) - as I've tried before - and the fine lines can't be painted thinly enough - without becoming so faint - as to be all but invisible. As with most other TS painters of Sailors - I therefore go for one stronger white line.

Here's a (rare) photo of a German Naval Veteran band ( note the older men in the picture) in the Winter dress - where the uniform can be seen. Note that I haven't tried for the more realistic numbers of buttons on the jackets - as there are fewer cast in buttons on these castings - and when I tried to put the actual number of buttons in - they just looked clumsy - so I reduced them to the numbers shown on my figures (six a side for the jacket and four on the cuffs) - which looks a lot better. As mine are in Toy Soldier style - and not accurate figurines - it's the impression that counts - and that's okay for me.



Colours are mainly flesh tones for face - then Blue and White ( I prefer Ivory) with a touch of black for cap-band and boots. Buttons and instruments will be Gold - whilst a touch of red on drum rims and for the horse-hair tassel on the Schellenbaum (Gold and Silver there too) - and that's about it! Nice and easy to paint with a small pallet - but really good to look at, I think. If BG had been able to supply them as castings - I would have bought them from there - but they don't - so.................. jb

 

[blaster]

Hi JB,

The colours are terrific. Even the winter uniform (part 2?....)
One comment. The most striking piece for me is the Jingling Johnny. I notice that the period photo shows a single headed eagle with wings swept downwards. I was under the impression that the Imperial eagle was double headed and with wings outswept. Any thoughts?

Rgds Victor

 

[johnnybach]

To be honest - I haven't looked that deeply into ANY of the musical instruments for this band Vic. Some of the ones I'm using were probably not used by the real band at all. I have also included a Bombardon - in place of the Sousaphone used in the Beau Geste (BG) Band - as I just preferred the look of it. However, all are okay for the time period - so I just included what I liked.{eek3}

As I mentioned earlier, I'm after a toy Soldier impression of these pieces - and not absolutely accurate figurines - hence the inaccurate button numbers on the jacket, for example. The eighteen front buttons - and six on each sleeve looked too cramped, when I tried a "first pass" on one of them - so I went with the moulded in buttons on the castings. [The sleeves - which are from a variety of figures - had a variety of cuffs, buttons and shoulder features - and had to be modified, and made to fit anyway].

With these particular figures - I also obtained what I could get in the way of musical instruments - some attached to odd arms - and others were separate parts. So when I found a Schellenbaum and arms with more-or-less the right bits on it - that was great for me, and didn't take it any further. I think that's a major difference with Glossy Toy Soldier style- to the more realistic models of many marques of today - hobbyists like me aren't ALWAYS after absolute accuracy. If I was - I could always remove that Eagle and modify it with some milliput - but I'm not - so it will do as it is for me. ( that instrument shown in the centre of the photo is a Bell Lyre - or Glockenspeil by the way - I'm collecting one for this band later on this week).

I did try to find some illustrations for a marching German Imperial Naval (Kaiserliche) band of the period, by the way, from the Internet - but failed to find one - just the Old Boys in the photo I posted. So, as mentioned, I used the BG TS band that triggered my interest in a pretty looking little band - as a general guide - and went with what I could get.

I think that I must drive some of the guys who strive for absolute realism nuts! - but - heigh ho - that's just the way I am - and I like Glossy TOY soldiers - and as they are just for me - that's okay.

All the best - jb:salute::

 

[johnnybach]

Here's the latest state of play with my band - showing a few more instrumentalists under way. I've turned some of the earlier figures at different angles - to show some rear/side views.

At the front are a side-drummer - arms just put on ( quite pleased with how they have been made to fit) - with gloves and drum-sticks already painted. Note the arms in front for another side drummer - showing how I have begun shaping them to fit a second one. I've been trimming off a swallow nest shoulder and note also the cuff detail on one arm - which will be filed off. My Trumpet player needs some filler on arm-joint - both arms came from different donors, and required shaping - whilst bass drum has just gone on - and no arms yet. Will let it set off firmly first.

Trombonist also has gaps where arms meet the shoulders - so will require a small fillet of milliput there before painting the joint - whilst my Clarinetist has no arms or instrument painted yet. I like to paint the instrument/gloves before it goes on - whilst arms can be painted once it is actually on the figure - as the blue is the same as the jacket.

I have ordered a few more instruments which I will collect this week when I pop into Dorset Soldiers shop - such as the Glockenspiel mentioned earlier in the thread (showed up in the useful photo) and a cymbalist - as I left the one I ordered in a different Country! (doh!:redface2 - whilst a German Euphonium has been ordered which points in the opposite direction to British versions - as the one I had was pointing the British way. I do make some concessions to realism!

It's surprising how colourful these figures are turning out, I think - considering the very few colours actually used to paint them.

 

[blaster]

To be honest - I haven't looked that deeply into ANY of the musical instruments for this band Vic. Some of the ones I'm using were probably not used by the real band at all. I have also included a Bombardon - in place of the Sousaphone used in the Beau Geste (BG) Band - as I just preferred the look of it. However, all are okay for the time period - so I just included what I liked.{eek3}

As I mentioned earlier, I'm after a toy Soldier impression of these pieces - and not absolutely accurate figurines - hence the inaccurate button numbers on the jacket, for example. The eighteen front buttons - and six on each sleeve looked too cramped, when I tried a "first pass" on one of them - so I went with the moulded in buttons on the castings. [The sleeves - which are from a variety of figures - had a variety of cuffs, buttons and shoulder features - and had to be modified, and made to fit anyway].

With these particular figures - I also obtained what I could get in the way of musical instruments - some attached to odd arms - and others were separate parts. So when I found a Schellenbaum and arms with more-or-less the right bits on it - that was great for me, and didn't take it any further. I think that's a major difference with Glossy Toy Soldier style- to the more realistic models of many marques of today - hobbyists like me aren't ALWAYS after absolute accuracy. If I was - I could always remove that Eagle and modify it with some milliput - but I'm not - so it will do as it is for me. ( that instrument shown in the centre of the photo is a Bell Lyre - or Glockenspeil by the way - I'm collecting one for this band later on this week).

I did try to find some illustrations for a marching German Imperial Naval (Kaiserliche) band of the period, by the way, from the Internet - but failed to find one - just the Old Boys in the photo I posted. So, as mentioned, I used the BG TS band that triggered my interest in a pretty looking little band - as a general guide - and went with what I could get.

I think that I must drive some of the guys who strive for absolute realism nuts! - but - heigh ho - that's just the way I am - and I like Glossy TOY soldiers - and as they are just for me - that's okay.

All the best - jb:salute::

I can't sleep nights now....

 

[johnnybach]

I can't sleep nights now....
View attachment 131298

Ha ha! - you need a shave - and stop smoking!

I had a peek at a few web-sites yesterday - and am pleased to announce that the German Eagle was a single header, pointing right at WW1 period and not a double header - which was somewhat earlier (have a look at Wikipedia). Hope you still like 'em a teeny bit chum. Sleep well - and don't dream of buttons! jb

 

[johnnybach]

Anyway, putting aside my "Sleep Therapist" role, with my good friend Vic ^&grin - back to the day job.

I've tidied up my latest additions and painted bases etc. Note that I haven't completed the sleeve buttons on some - as the arms required re-touching in after adding to the body of the figures - which often happens with this method of painting, and they need to be thoroughly dried. - takes a bit longer - but as it's only time........ doesn't matter to me.

Once again, the rear rank shows how figures are developed. Note clarinet and arms - which have been partially painted before mounting - and I have put a thin coat of blue on the inside arm too, this time. When I paint the gold buttons/ musicians badge on the sleeves of nearly completed figures, I will also paint gold spots on clarinet to represent finger keys/holes and put a gold rim around the trumpet-shaped end - and put gold buttons on the Bass Drum rope tensioners. Turning into a pretty little band already, I think. jb

 

[blaster]

Ha ha! - you need a shave - and stop smoking!

I had a peek at a few web-sites yesterday - and am pleased to announce that the German Eagle was a single header, pointing right at WW1 period and not a double header - which was somewhat earlier (have a look at Wikipedia). Hope you still like 'em a teeny bit chum. Sleep well - and don't dream of buttons! jb

So did I, but I came back with this.

Take a peek matey, before the webmeister yanks this off......:)) Vic


Rear rank without buttons

 

[johnnybach]

NOT my sort of thing - takes too much flesh-tone to paint!

However - to each his/her own!jb

 

[johnnybach]

A few more (nearly) completed - including a second Side-drum, Glockenspiel, Cornet and a French Horn players. One or two badges, bases to touch up and a few to be varnished when completely dried. Note the small Eagle at the top of the Glockenspiel - made with milliput and glued on - as I felt a pal of mine would like it!!^&grin The tassels and Eagle are similar to that of the Schellenbaum at the front.

Just four more to go - and this little band will be finished. jb

URL=http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/johnnybach43/media/German%20Naval%20Band/PIC_2299_zps93790324.jpg.html]

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[theBaron]

..I was under the impression that the Imperial eagle was double headed and with wings outswept. Any thoughts?

Rgds Victor

...the German Eagle was a single header, pointing right at WW1 period and not a double header - which was somewhat earlier

Roger that. The double eagle was the heraldic symbol of the old Holy Roman Empire, and became associated with the Habsburgs, after the imperial succession became more or less hereditary in their house, continuing in use in the Austrian Empire till 1918. The Holy Roman Emperors adopted the eagle as a symbol of Rome, whose mantle they claimed, and the two heads faced east and west, symbolizing their claim to rule all of Christendom. The Imperial Russian double eagle has a similar provenance. They claimed the mantle of the Byzantine (East Roman) Empire.

The Second Reich under the Hohenzollerns used the single-headed eagle from their heraldry. It faces to the right, ie, to the west. The Nazis changed this orientation, to face to the left, the east, according to their belief that Germany must conquer the Slavic lands to the east.

If I'm not mistaken, the Poles chose the eagle for similar reasons, invoking imperial status, but I could be mistaken.

Here endeth the history lesson for today

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

And apologies, John, I meant to say, great progress on this band! This will be a beautiful display, when you've finished. You make me realize that I should paint one for my "Kaiser's Christmas" display.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Martin Tabony]

Hi JB,

The colours are terrific. Even the winter uniform (part 2?....)
One comment. The most striking piece for me is the Jingling Johnny. I notice that the period photo shows a single headed eagle with wings swept downwards. I was under the impression that the Imperial eagle was double headed and with wings outswept. Any thoughts?

Rgds Victor

It's the Imperial Russian eagle that is double headed.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

And apologies, John, I meant to say, great progress on this band! This will be a beautiful display, when you've finished. You make me realize that I should paint one for my "Kaiser's Christmas" display.

Prost!
Brad

Well thank you, Meinherr Baron - glad you like them. I must say - I have been very pleased with how easily these have gone together, considering most are conversions - and how delightful they have been to paint. One of the easier little bands I have completed in quite a while. Goes to show - that a palette doesn't have to be complicated, to have a pretty little band - and at a small cost too. All parts were purchased from Dorset Soldiers - though the idea came from Beau Gueste originally. I could have easily extended the band further, with instruments from Giles' range - but thought that this number would look about right - without me getting fed up with painting the same figure over and over again.

I'm very pleased with them - and sure that you might enjoy making them up too, should you wish to make some up - which I can thoroughly recommend. I met up with Giles on Wednesday - and we had a very enjoyable time in his shop - which also included a very pleasant lunch around the corner in his local, which overlooks the English Channel. La Commandante accompanied me - and we had a thoroughly enjoyable day out. The sun even came out - for a stroll along Chesil Beach after I had purchased a few bits and pieces ( to help keep me busy this winter). I'll post them from time to time, as I make them up - which might include a surprise or two, along the way! Prost!! - jb

 

[johnnybach]

I was just about ready to put on the arms of my last four musicians for the band - then found that my last tube of glue had expired!!!

Why does this always seem to happen on a Sunday???

Oh well - might as well paint the arms up a bit more.............. jb